Skeptical of Instinct theory

[Daeva]

But yes, that is the question.

[Daeva]

According to that article, the instincts were derived from the conservation instinct, which correlates to the gut center and Self Preservation, the relation instinct, which corresponds to the heart center and Sexual, and the adaptation instinct, which corresponds to the head center and Social

[[redacted]]

My guess is that it's based on his own fetishes...
Seriously though, I think it's supposed to create a contrast between Sp/So and Sp/Sx, showing how Sp/So is more "normal" while Sp/Sx is more likely to deviate and get into strange stuff due to Social-lastness and being contraflow. Still, these feel rather limiting. Perhaps that's bound to happen when talking in terms of archetypes, but I still feel like there could be more variety here.

[SpiritoftheGael]

Animal Daeva Just found this

http://www.enneagram-monthly.com/subtypes.html

This is pretty long, but here's a piece of it:

Enneagram Monthly: Do you see the instinctual sub-types (or drives) as strategies of coping with life that are independent from the enneagram typology, or as inexorably linked to the nine types?


Oscar Ichazo: instincts and the two drives or poles, and because we all have the three instincts and two drives that are actually functioning or, otherwise, we are dead or in an enormous psychic problem, promoting personality disorders and further on, psychosis, catatonia, or dementia, where the instinctual questions have been obliterated and the person has become incapacitated.

[SpiritoftheGael]

Here are two articles I found that might be relevant. This one is about Ichazo's model:

https://oceanmoonshine9.wordpress.co...agram-arica-1/

And this is Ichazo's descriptions:

https://web.archive.org/web/20081220...position=74:38

Going from this it appears that people have created the three instincts from the conservation instinct (SP), which is the head triad, the relational instinct (SO), which is the heart triad, and then randomly thrown in one of the poles, which is the sexual pole (SX). Also I really love the name conservation, and I think it's better than SP. So I guess the question is if the instincts each lead to the head, heart, and gut centers, why did they end up separated out? Daeva

[Daeva]

Love <3

[Animal]

Here are two articles I found that might be relevant. This one is about Ichazo's model:

https://oceanmoonshine9.wordpress.co...agram-arica-1/

And this is Ichazo's descriptions:

https://web.archive.org/web/20081220...position=74:38

[Daeva]

Sadly, biological instinct is largely focused on things such as breathing, the "flight- or flight" response, emotions such as fear and anger, hunger, thirst, asphyxiation, exhaustion, etc. You know, actual instinctive reactions.
At best I can make clusters of instincts that are related to the "Sp, Sx, Soc," but this is working backwards from an empty premise.

[Daeva]

No luck in biological instincts, sadly enough. This shit is filled with dead-ends. I'm this close to throwing out the instinct stacking theory and just proclaim that the instincts are inherent to the types and that's the end of it.

[Daeva]

Another possible interpretation would be the 9 - 4/5 line. Attached unity, Life, versus the void, entropy, Death, the "hole" in the Enneagram.
edit: But this only works on the very abstract level. No personality type can in actuality be representative of the Death drive as thought of by Freud. The personality, by definition, would fall under the Life drive, and this includes any and all instincts.

[Daeva]

Because of the loss of self into creating a higher Other.
edit: scrap that, this would still be part of the Life drive. Gray is wrong.

[Animal]

Luckovich called Sx "a salmon swimming upstream to mate and die." Orgasm is also "little death." But this is also the life cycle.

[Animal]

It just doesn't make any sense at all. Why Sx = death?

[Daeva]

Following Gray's train of thought, if we assume that the Death drive is the Sexual instinct, then the Life drive must be the Self Preservation instinct. This leaves the Social instinct out in the water.

[Quindary]

Daeva

I suspect the biological domain will be of a lot more help with actual instincts, in a primary sense. Instincts stem from biology, after all.

Which lends itself back to the idea that there is something biological (probably genetic) in Enneagram, maybe like there would be in CT in order for there to be physical correlations in it. After all, why not...

The way I'd see this playing out, Enneagram core would operate in the wider scope of the SO, SX or SP focus, would operate as part of the deeper instinct. Like nesting dolls.