Han Solo 8w7 with 3w4 and 6w5 fixes. sp/sx
Leia 6w7 with 1w2 fix
-
much, much better typing than 7 with a 9 fix (even with two 8 wings). it's either 7w8 or 8w7, I'm increasingly leaning the latter as well
flip those and you may have a case, but 19 year old 6w7 is not that authoritative, that serious or that sturdy. the first scene with her in it, she's been placed under arrest and faces torture or execution, yet she proceeds to...lecture Darth Vader (a 6ft 6, bass-voiced force user known to choke people to death on a whim) and makes him defensive. she is not a head type. she is a gut type. hands down. 1w2 or 8 for sure. I can't see anything else. she's never defensive or counter-phobic, doesn't really question herself. even when she's threatened by people much more powerful, she assumes a frame that's almost dismissive, like they're a punk teenager and she's a middle school teacher like "whatever, I've seen this 1000 times....". -
For Han Solo , 7 with an 8 fix or 8 with a 7 fix is a bad typing. There's something reigning him in. 8 with 6w5 works well - theres that "lone star cowboy" vibe. Maybe even 8w9 sp/sx since theres something chill there, like nothing can phase himComment
-
Animal
more from the Darth Bane trilogy
Bane: TeNi 8w9>5w4>3w4 Sp/Sx
Zannah: TeNi or SeTi 8w7 Sp/Sx or Sx/Sp
Githany: FeNi 2w3>6w5>8w7 Sx/Sp
Koth: TiSe 8w7 or 6w5>3w4 Sp/So
Farfalla: NiTe 4w3>1w9>7w6 Sx/Sp (my favorite jedi so far. he has so much swag)
Johun: FiSe 2w1>6w7>1w2 So/?? (honestly, any as core could work)
Darovit: FiSe? 6w5>9w8>2w1 Sp/So
most of the Brotherhood of Darkness seem like 6w5s with 8w9 in their tritype somewhere
8w9 Sp/Sx is a fairly serious type. add a 6w5 fix and that makes it even more serious. the "scoundrel" archetype overall is very much 8w7/7w8, and Han is much more playful, fast talking and loudmouth-y for this typing to work well. "nothing can phase me" is kinda 8 in general, the 9 influence is more "I'm going to exaggeratedly minimize my responses and use silent pauses to add gravity to my point". Tywin Lannister (1w9 rather than 8w9, but still w9) is the master of this. he just stares intently, and waits patiently while he gives you several moments to realize how much you've fucked up. Han doesn't really do this. he doesn't pause and suck the air out of the room. his personality is like a maverick, asshole entrepreneur from NYC, which is almost stereotypically 8w7For Han Solo , 7 with an 8 fix or 8 with a 7 fix is a bad typing. There's something reigning him in. 8 with 6w5 works well - theres that "lone star cowboy" vibe. Maybe even 8w9 sp/sx since theres something chill there, like nothing can phase himLast edited by BalalaikaBoy; 01-06-2020, 12:20 AM.Comment
-
Animal
I've already posted this topic in other forums, so I don't know if it warrants its own thread, but you may be in a better position now to appreciate my correlation of Enneagram types with lightsaber forms
Form I/Shii Cho: 9 core or wing
Form II/Makashi: 1, 4, 5, 8w9
Form III/Soresu: 1w9, 5, 6w5, 9
Form IV/Ataru: 2, 3, 6w7, 7, 8w7
Form V/Djem So: 3, 7w8, 8
Form VI/Niman: any type
*From VII/Juyo: Sx-heavy 4, 8, possibly cp6
*Form VII/Vaapad: 1, 8w9, 9
*there are two variants of Form VII. there is also a variant of Form V called "Shien" dedicated to blaster bolt deflection, but imo, that's more of a single technique than an entire form. Form IV also has a two lightsaber variant known as "Jar'kai" but dual wielding has also been seen among Form II, VI and VII practitioners. it can pretty much apply to any form and doesn't vary much with personality.
one last thing to note is that, naturally, one's body type, level of physical fitness and size all play a role as well. the audiobook I sent you earlier features an 8w7 who uses Form III (one of the personalities least similar to the principles of Soresu), but it works for her because she's physically small, patient and requires additional means to defend against her master who uses Form V.
I believe you would do best at Form VII/Juyo, though it's recommended you start with Forms IV or V first.Comment
-
Animal
I don't know what you type Darth Maul as, but this clip is 8 as fuq and consistent with his personality in the movie and CGI.
Count Dooku is a much better example of a 1w9 sith. he never fully gives into his anger, is "a political idealist, not a murderer" at heart and is less sadistic than the other sith (he's still sadistic. everyone on the dark side is, but he doesn't have it to the degree that Maul or Sidious do)
the archetype of the stoic, disciplined martial artist can easily be Sp 8 as well as 1 (common types that exhibit this archetype are 1w9, 3w4, 6w5, 8 and 9). a lot of people assume discipline and conscientiousness necessitate a focus on "correctness" rather than a drive to push oneself to greater power (8) or victory/achievement (3) (you seem to already agree that it can be 6 or 9, so those don't need explaining).
Last edited by BalalaikaBoy; 01-17-2020, 10:28 AM.Comment
-
Revan: ILI 8w9>5w6 Sx/Sp, not sure of heart fix, maybe 4w3?Comment
-
BalalaikaBoy I will have to check out those other series. Daeva and I just finished the 9-movie binge.
I have to say, I'm actually considering 4 lead for Kylo Ren. Let me see if I can lay out my process. I'm not completely convinced by any means and I have some doubts which I'll also lay out. But I want to discuss my thoughts as they stand now. Dammit, words.
So, I typed Anikin at 6 forever - only briefly reconsidered 8. (I tend to wipe slates clean when I'm rewatching or reconsidering several years later, since I know my old ideas may be tainted by perc garbage which affected my basic premises, even if they were my independent ideas.) I am back to six now. Bala, I know you don't agree with 6 so you have to take my argument for what it is worth haha. Anyone else reading this who does agree with six, you can catch my drift...
Forgive me if badly articulated. I'm mentally discombobulated (illness).
Some comparisons
1) Relationship to teachers and masters
Annikin Skywalker/Darth Vader: Complies or rebels. Sucks up and wants approval, feels overlooked or betrayed if he doesn't get it. Wants recognition for his compliance so badly that he turns to the dark side when they don't grant him this (though he also has other reasons). At the very end, he looks back and forth from the Emporer to Luke to the Emporer to Luke, his head turning. "Him, or him? Who am I loyal to?" This is the primary theme right before his death. In the moments before he dies, he wants to show his son "his real face" and look upon him with "his own eyes" - meaning the eyes he had before were given to him by someone else, and he didn't consider them his own. This is an expression of autonomy and clarity.
Prior to that, he was always oriented toward his master, his council, the emporer, his advisors, his mother, etc.
Ben Solo/Kylo Ren: Gets deep into his own darkness, which scares his master, Luke. Luke is about to kill him, as he feels the darkness inside him and fears his student becoming like his grandfather Annikin. Ben sees him standing over him with a lightsaber while he is sleeping! Naturally, he runs, and becomes Kylo Ren, taking many other students of Luke with him and killing the rest. He wears a Vader mask because he worships Vader (his grandfather) as an ideal he's trying to embody and live up to. But once he finds a better ideal -- Rey , the love of his life --- he turns all attention to her and forgets Vader. He doesn't even care that she smashed Vader's mask. He just wants her, and focuses absolutely on her, nothing else. In the moments before his death, when he is redeemed, he achieves equanimity.
Prior to that, when he had turned on Snoke, it's not because he gave a shit about Snoke. He went in there with his own plan - to turn Rey and have her at his side. Snoke was no longer useful toward this end, and also tried to kill Rey, so he killed him. He does have a six fix for sure. But there was no "turning his head back and forth." He knew what his heart wanted and that was up front from the start. He also had no qualms about his plan to betray the emporer. It was not about "turning on an authority" because he never cared about that. It was about getting what he wants for himself and not letting these other people dictate how he should proceed with Rey. He was willing to bow and use them along the way so long as it got him what he wants. He used them but was not particularly oriented toward them. Turning against them was not some big decision, it just happened when they didn't suit his purposes. Basically the four "you don't exist to me" with the exception of the 'special' people, his obsession or ideals.
2) Expression of emotions & inner world
Annikin: While he was very emotional, whiny, and expressive of feelings moment to moment, he did not often delve in to why he became that way or what was going on deep inside. He never asked Padme, his love, to expose her flaws, her history, the conflict inside her etc- he kept her at a distance emotionally, even as he gave her his heart. He would share his feelings, but his primary focus was not on dissecting the meaning of their inner world. When he was suddenly hit with something emotional to him, he would flip the fuck out or shut down robotically, to protect himself from delving in. He would delve in only when it was safe.
Kylo: Every conversation with Rey, when the force was connecting them, was about getting deep inside her. Clearly this is high Sx, probably Sx lead. But the specific focus of it was fourish. He wanted to explore her suffering, show her who she really is, her origins, expose her inner conflict, mirror it. He also was able to delve deep into himself without flinching. When Rey would see into HIS mind, he didn't think to protect his own thoughts. He did the first time, maybe for a minute, but once the connection was established he was fine with her seeing him 'naked,' (figuratively and literally) --- and he was not able to be thrown off in a fight because someone called out the true reason for his suffering. He was more than aware. And that shame was carried with him all the time.... in his eyes, his demeanor, his expression. Even his Vader mask was CRACKED, with red lines coming through. He designed it artistically to demonstrate his flaws and imperfection, and the blood red rage that came with it.
He says to her: "You come from nothing. You're nothing. But not to me." This separates him from the rest and distinguishes their love as something 'beyond' what the rest of the world can offer. This choice of words is important as it could be interpreted as "romantic" and yet it reveals something very dark about him. He wants to bring her separately from the world, into his dungeon. He sees himself as the one who can show Rey her true darkness and give her a self-made origin. Another way to look at this manipulation is "low 2," as he probably doesn't realize the full extent of how fucked up it is and feels justified in 'saving her' from her own lies.
3) Why they turned to the Dark Side
Annikin: there was more power there, and a master who respected him.
Kylo: it reflected his real feelings, anger and hate, which the Jedi didn't let him express. (I figured this out because of what he tells Rey about it.)
4) Inner conflict
Annikin: Am I light or dark? Which authority/group/vision is correct? Which will allow me to protect Padme? Which will give me more influence, power, control?
Kylo: I want Rey - but I want her to come to MY world. I am not going to change who I am to go to HER world. Oh wait... she has become more important - now all I feel is my desire for her. What does this mean about who I am?
Why don't I think this is 9 lead?
He is far too aware, alive, digging --- in his worst moments he is overcome with his own emotions. Much like Scarlet O'Hara he would chase his ideal obsession (Rey/Ashley) all over the galaxy, despite any obstacles. Everyone else didn't exist to him and was used as a means toward achieving that end, and an audience to applaud his dramatic show. A nine, at their darkest moments, has more of a physical power and wall. As RALA puts it, I forgot the exact wording but her heart was steel? Rala maybe you remember? Since she also shares this tritype I think this difference is significant, even with the instinct difference. Kylo's emotions are always on.. he does not "harden." His strength and resilience lies in not even flinching when his innards are laid out. At most he appears full of shame and then hits and kicks things later, because of failure (3 wing). But he never buries them or goes 'numb' or becomes a rock .
My doubts about 4 lead:
Kylo wearing the Vader mask in the first place, wanting to 'be like' Vader. This is basically such a huge doubt that I don't need others. :P
Why would an individualist want to be like someone else? The only reason I can think of is, perhaps, since Vader is his grandfather, it's part of his own origin. To him, Vader is a high minded ideal, not a person he actually knows. He can use that image as inspiration to build himself.Last edited by Animal; 01-22-2020, 05:21 PM.Comment
-
Comment
-
Good to know. I think he's a four... something is off with 9. He goes too deep exploring his inner emotions as a reflex. There's no 'muddle' there at the core. Definitely 6 and 9 fix, so there's some identity seeking and attachment themes, but ultimately he is an individualistic independent operator who needs to journey into his own depth and actualize it through his image and lifestyle. I am strongly leaning Sx 4. I also related to him the most.
With Aniikin I realized what I related to was more about general trauma themes. I watched it when I was deep in trauma and connected.He does have four fix which made it graspable for me. But I related to the idea of wanting something so badly that you fuck it up through your own obsessiveness. It is more about being at low health levels and deep in ANY fixation, with enough fourish twinge. In Kylo's case, there are some themes that are identical to how I wrote it for my 4 character, though not all. He was extremely relatable to me, and not to Daeva. Daeva related to Annikin's struggle with authority, which is something I was overlooking in favor of connecting to the emotional journey in the four space. But after we typed Annikin at 6 I thought.... Kylo cannot be a six. He just does not have those authority issues, at least not at core. There's no hesitation or indecision, nor counterphobia, running the show. I also considered 9 but it doesn't add up with how "present" he is with his inner emotions at ALL times, and also those of the woman he desires. He doesn't merge identities with her; he is WIDE awake and over-alert to his inner developments and hers, as two separate yet united entities. He doesn't live vicariously through her or through their union but rather, obsesses and idealizes them exploring and embodying each other's darkness together and ruling together on the Sith throne. He sees her (a likely 163 imo) as resisting and blocking her true self.Last edited by Animal; 01-22-2020, 05:14 PM. -
He talks a lot about building yourself into being the person you want to be... building and crafting yourself. Very 4 and 3 corner. And also leaving the past behind, which I think comes up for him more because he's double-attachment and has to break the attachments (ie killing his father, etc) to fulfill his individual identity.
-
-
Animal
I'm having trouble seeing Sexual 4 specifically, but Social 4? sure, I could buy that for Kylo.
Sexual 4 is more aesthetically captivating, elitist, not as obvious with their shame (ex: France is an Sx 4w3 country. lots of frills, grabs for attention that almost look 2)Comment
-
Roshan I think so too and I'm glad you see it too.
This is slightly off topic but are you familiar with the character Loki in Marvel? Most people cite him as a Social 4. He'd be potentially So/Sp 479, a trickster. I've been wondering for years if this is actually correct. But anyway, his trajectory is somewhat similar to Kylo in spilling shame everywhere , though he is a bit more perky and regal.. and he tries to kill his brother to take the throne that he feels is his birthright. Kylo kills his father not to take his father's throne, but to forward his own path. Maybe I'll start a thread for him. He's not nearly as outwardly MISERABLE as Kylo... so they could be two different types.. it's not a "if one is a four the other must be" sort of deal. But if he is a four then it would be interesting to me to explore this type of archetypal trajectory.Last edited by Animal; 01-22-2020, 08:22 PM. -
needless to say, I don't agree, but I've heard far more absurd typings suggested for me (especially given 5w4 is definitely a fix and 2w1 is likely a fix) -
Daeva, Roshan
tbh, I could see France as CORE 6 from what I know about their history (the French Revolution screams unhealthy Social 6w7, as does their obsession with strikes), but admittedly, I've not the most well-versed at the moment. it's possible I'm wrong about core Sx 4 for them
-
-
for Anakin....still think 2, never doubted it.
1) Everything he does can clearly be explained by pride or love
2) 2 is literally correlated with histrionic personality in the literature. they can be plenty, to use your word, "confessional". more than 4 if anything
3) lots of people mistype 2s as 6s because they think "they're insecure". 2s can also be insecure, but all of their insecurities revolve around people. "do they love me?" "do they approve of me?" "are my friends in danger?" Anakin never has any doubts about his abilities. he's never worried about himself, always about others, be that about their approval or their safety.
4) He isn't head center at all. y'all even admitted this initially
5) between a 6 fix, 2's desire for validation and 8's (as both a fix and a line) rebellious streak, what looks like core 6 phobic/counter-phobic can be explained rather easily.Comment
-
It just occurred to me that Rey is a 3 lead. She wanted so badly to 'belong' and to have a place in the story that came from outside. She needed outside expectations to fulfill. "Who are my parents?" Why is it so important? This has to be attachment. She didn't want to look inside and face her own shame ... she wanted to know where she belongs. I get this from some 3s like Jared Leto too.. a deep need to belong even with Sp/Sx. And focus on family (he has a lot of lyrics about this, 'where he came from.' ) Image is relational...
I'd give her 3w4Comment
-
Originally posted by Animal View Post
''I have a core of steel. It's true, it gets melted almost every day, but it's a stubborn, phoenix-like steel. It gets back to its initial hard state quite fast, always ready to take whatever gets thrown at it next. Self-healing steel. It's not an armour, it's not meant to protect anything. It's my very core, my essence. This is not to say I am a robot, or an untouchable badass. Oh, quite on the contrary: I am an emotional hell, a constant wound. But I enjoy living through wars because I am resilience. ''
Turning pain into power.Comment
-
RALA it was slightly different - it was your old facebook quote. "My heart is cold but my blood is boiling?" something like that?
Yeah sorry, some 9s go numb, but I know you don't. You are a better comparison to him since I see him as 469. But I don't see him having a core of steel at all that gets melted. He is a core of drama and emotion and shame. There's no steel to speak of.
-
-
that works better than 1, I still think 9w8. some 9w8/3w4/6w5 Sp/Sx combo either way.Originally posted by Animal View PostComment
Comment