"The question I get asked by religious people all the time is, without God, what's to stop me from raping all I want? And my answer is: I do rape all I want. And the amount I want is zero. And I do murder all I want, and the amount I want is zero. The fact that these people think that if they didn't have this person watching over them that they would go on raping, killing rampages is the most self-damning thing I can imagine." - Penn Jillette
My response:
Empathy is part of human nature, so most people don't feel good when they hurt others. It's impossible to avoid hurting others completely, since every resource we take for ourselves is taken away from someone else who might have had it instead. And every opinion anyone has, someone else disagrees with it.
So we need to have room to exist; thus we cannot avoid causing pain altogether. And this is why we have discussions about morals, to find the best way to balance our own needs with those of others. Provided we are neurotypical, we wouldn't WANT to hurt others. We don't specifically aim to cause pain since we feel empathy for the other person. We just realize over time that our actions may have hurt someone inadvertently, and the healthier we are psychologically, the more likely it is that we try to work on achieving a good balance between compassion and self-care.
Then there is mental illness, which can happen as a result of trauma or can be genetic. Sociopaths and Psychopaths who don't feel empathy may rape just because they can. Not all sociopaths or psychopaths WANT to rape, but if they DO want to, then compassion would not get in their way, since they don't automatically feel empathy. The only thing that would stop them would be fear that they will be punished.
There are many other mental illnesses that cause people to use each other. Narcissism - the narcissist feels empty and needs supply. BPD - the person feels abandoned inherently, and projects blame for this feeling on others who they imagine abandoned them. Schizophrenics can become paranoid and hurt the people they imagine are "following them." And so forth.
Some mentally ill people (not all) may need some kind of system to tell them what to do, and what not to do. Some may require a punishment and reward system while others have empathy and may respond to different methods. Mental illness is not always a constant - it can come and go in some people due to trauma. Others will battle it forever.
And those are the people who need "rules" to behave in a way that is not a danger to others. Some of them want to know the rules and seek them out, others avoid this - but in both camps, it's possible to do something egregious, like rape or murder, since the brain interprets human interaction through a different filter.
Religious institutions are one of many places where ethical "do's and dont's" are ingrained into people. And it's a GOOD THING if this type of education is available to those who need it, which are more numerous than you might imagine.
This is why societies that lack family and religion also lack ethics. The lack of community contributes to psychosis, and the lack of religion leaves someone 'not knowing how to behave' unless they are fortunate enough to be neurotypical. So a society without religion and family CREATES mental illness, and then fails to correct it.
Yet these 'rules' that are taught to those who need it are not the same as having a relationship with God. Whether or not one believes in God, they may or may not commit crimes. Believing in God is not enough to correct these impulses without hands-on help from other humans. One benefit of a healthy religious community is that, due to its focus on being "good," people may notice more quickly when someone else needs help. That said, the wrong community can also cause trauma and lead to mental illness.
It would be wrong to assume, automatically, that "religious communities are good," but it is also honest to acknowledge the benefits a good religious community may have. Compassion, as well as hate, comes in many forms. More importantly, believing in God does not necessarily entail believing in punishments and rewards such as heaven and hell, or reincarnation hierarchies. Any true believer must understand that God is beyond the arbitrary constructs invented by humans to understand the universe. These constructs may be useful and wonderful for humankind, but they are not God.
My response:
Empathy is part of human nature, so most people don't feel good when they hurt others. It's impossible to avoid hurting others completely, since every resource we take for ourselves is taken away from someone else who might have had it instead. And every opinion anyone has, someone else disagrees with it.
So we need to have room to exist; thus we cannot avoid causing pain altogether. And this is why we have discussions about morals, to find the best way to balance our own needs with those of others. Provided we are neurotypical, we wouldn't WANT to hurt others. We don't specifically aim to cause pain since we feel empathy for the other person. We just realize over time that our actions may have hurt someone inadvertently, and the healthier we are psychologically, the more likely it is that we try to work on achieving a good balance between compassion and self-care.
Then there is mental illness, which can happen as a result of trauma or can be genetic. Sociopaths and Psychopaths who don't feel empathy may rape just because they can. Not all sociopaths or psychopaths WANT to rape, but if they DO want to, then compassion would not get in their way, since they don't automatically feel empathy. The only thing that would stop them would be fear that they will be punished.
There are many other mental illnesses that cause people to use each other. Narcissism - the narcissist feels empty and needs supply. BPD - the person feels abandoned inherently, and projects blame for this feeling on others who they imagine abandoned them. Schizophrenics can become paranoid and hurt the people they imagine are "following them." And so forth.
Some mentally ill people (not all) may need some kind of system to tell them what to do, and what not to do. Some may require a punishment and reward system while others have empathy and may respond to different methods. Mental illness is not always a constant - it can come and go in some people due to trauma. Others will battle it forever.
And those are the people who need "rules" to behave in a way that is not a danger to others. Some of them want to know the rules and seek them out, others avoid this - but in both camps, it's possible to do something egregious, like rape or murder, since the brain interprets human interaction through a different filter.
Religious institutions are one of many places where ethical "do's and dont's" are ingrained into people. And it's a GOOD THING if this type of education is available to those who need it, which are more numerous than you might imagine.
This is why societies that lack family and religion also lack ethics. The lack of community contributes to psychosis, and the lack of religion leaves someone 'not knowing how to behave' unless they are fortunate enough to be neurotypical. So a society without religion and family CREATES mental illness, and then fails to correct it.
Yet these 'rules' that are taught to those who need it are not the same as having a relationship with God. Whether or not one believes in God, they may or may not commit crimes. Believing in God is not enough to correct these impulses without hands-on help from other humans. One benefit of a healthy religious community is that, due to its focus on being "good," people may notice more quickly when someone else needs help. That said, the wrong community can also cause trauma and lead to mental illness.
It would be wrong to assume, automatically, that "religious communities are good," but it is also honest to acknowledge the benefits a good religious community may have. Compassion, as well as hate, comes in many forms. More importantly, believing in God does not necessarily entail believing in punishments and rewards such as heaven and hell, or reincarnation hierarchies. Any true believer must understand that God is beyond the arbitrary constructs invented by humans to understand the universe. These constructs may be useful and wonderful for humankind, but they are not God.