Libra is not an Archetypal Energy

[Animal]

By redefining Libra, we also redefine the feminine archetype and what it means to be a mom and wife.

I will come back for astrology with fire and vengeance and make it pay for the crime toward womankind that it committed: it dared to equate an archetype like Libra, which is attuned to beauty and the divine feminine (Venus) to having no opinion, being a pushover, having no stance, and caring more about wifeyness than about yourself. Nobody ever looked beautiful doing that. No men WANT a Virgin Mary, even if they settle for one to please their family. What turns people on and balances masculinity is absolutely owning one's passion. And how dare astrology to get on board with Abrahamic religions in reducing the divine feminine archetype to an opinionless pushover.

[Animal]

Some sources online. Originally I collected this in my own notes, so I'll have to go through the internet and find all the original sources, which I'll edit in to credit them. But for now I'll post them anyway, just to have them organized.

"It is the only member of the zodiac constellation that represents an object as opposed to an animal or a mythology character. "

What is the myth of Libra?
The ancient Greeks viewed Libra as the claws of Scorpius reaching out. To the Romans, Libra represented the scales of justice being held by the goddess Virgo or Astraea. In astrology, which is not a science, Libra is the seventh sign in the Zodiac and represents those born between Sept. 23 and Oct. 22.

From wiki: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libra_(constellation)

History and mythology
Libra as depicted in Urania's Mirror, a set of constellation cards published in London c.1825
Libra was known in Babylonian astronomy as MUL Zibanu (the "scales" or "balance"), or alternatively as the Claws of the Scorpion. The scales were held sacred to the sun god Shamash, who was also the patron of truth and justice.[1] It was also seen as the Scorpion's Claws in ancient Greece.[2] Since these times, Libra has been associated with law, fairness and civility. In Arabic zub?n? means "scorpion's claws", and likely similarly in other Semitic languages: this resemblance of words may be why the Scorpion's claws became the Scales.[citation needed] It has also been suggested that the scales are an allusion to the fact that when the sun entered this part of the ecliptic at the autumnal equinox, the days and nights are equal.[3] Libra's status as the location of the equinox earned the equinox the name "First Point of Libra", though this location ceased to coincide with the constellation in 730 because of the precession of the equinoxes.[4]
In ancient Egypt the three brightest stars of Libra (?, ?, and ? Librae) formed a constellation that was viewed as a boat.[5] Libra is a constellation not mentioned by Eudoxus or Aratus.[3] Libra is mentioned by Manetho (3rd century B.C.) and Geminus (1st century B.C.), and included by Ptolemy in his 48 asterisms. Ptolemy catalogued 17 stars, Tycho Brahe 10, and Johannes Hevelius 20.[3] It only became a constellation in ancient Rome, when it began to represent the scales held by Astraea, the goddess of justice, associated with Virgo in the Greek mythology.[2]

Basically, to sum this up, the Romans changed the meaning of Libra (which was Chelae, claws). They founded their empire during this time, so perhaps they wanted to make a nice little story about balance, and the scales of the perfect Virgo; so they completely erased the origins and invented this nice peaceful little sign, and honored it as the sign of their empire. Yet Balance and Peace could not be further from what they stood for, so who were they trying to fool? And why are we still swallowing this whole?

[Animal]

From http://cura.free.fr/decem/10kengil.html

"Aries and Libra had Athena-Minerva and Hephaestus-Vulcan as their guardian gods.
Athena-Minerva is the goddess of wisdom. At her birth, we're told she sprang from the head of Zeus clad in her armor, brandishing her lance, and giving her war cry. Although a martial goddess, her most characteristic attribute is her practical intelligence and she is the patroness, inspirer and teacher of all specialized workers and artists. Her chief traits are prudence and valor. She never goes to war unless forced and when she fights, always wins. Her emblem is the owl.
Hephaestus-Vulcan is the lame, ugly smith-magician, the archetypal artisan and shaman, the god of technological perfection who creates many wonderful things. He is also a deity of volcanic fire, which he uses in his forge. His emblems are his tongs and the quail, a bird that does a hobbling dance in springtime.
Aries symbolizes the head from which Athena sprang. The association of Hephaestus-Vulcan with Libra, a constant everywhere, is doubtless due to the forged Scales being the only manufactured object in the Zodiac. Ariel Guttman and Ken Johnson [8] astutely suggest that Athena and Hephaestus are paired because they were both born of a single parent, Athena from Zeus without any female intervention, Hephaestus from Hera without masculine input."

"September - Vulcan on winged genius carrying scales, Libra.
October - helmeted beardless deity with long skirt (a martial goddess such as Minerva rather than Mars) riding on a winged genius who empties a basket of grapes, in the hair are the claws of Scorpio. (The main festival in October, the Armilustrum, celebrated the army. October was the traditional end of the fighting year.)"

My commentary:
It's manufactured, much like a four's interiorized-image
And the artisan stuff, and the God himself being lame and ugly...
Also funny because I call myself both Animal and Volcana. And the Volcana name is because I consider myself to be self-created, forged through the fire of transformation.
So, I'm happier with Libra now that it has AN ACTUAL MEANING.
But none of its roots, over the centuries, had anything to do with Libras having no opinions or being overrun by the opinions of their partners. All of that was just made up, which is what I figured considering the placement (between Virgo and Scorpio) and the rulership Venus.
It IS about beauty (which makes sense with Venus) and it's about forging your own beautiful creation and wielding it as a beautiful, manufactured art piece -- so even the "ugly" artisan can create beauty.
Somehow there seems to be a pattern where fourish themes about 'discomfort with being incarnate' end up being misinterpreted by people as "lacking opinions," "giving up any sense of self to get a partner" or "formlessness." This is true both in RH four, and in astrology.
But that's not what it's about at all. It's about the ugly lame person manufacturing a beautiful image and presenting that instead of their lame 'self.'
Libra Sun is in "fall" -- lacking in its own STRONG PRESENCE - the opposite of Leo. However, it compensates for this by being an artistan (associated with Hephaestus-Vulcan) - creating a manufactured "powerful" presence.
So this explains the 'non-presence' that comes with "sun being in Fall" -- the 'lacking' in earthly beauty--- but creating it yourself. The ARTISAN himself is UGLY.
And why it's "in fall" - opposite Leo - ruled by Venus etc - this really brings it all together as an archetype.

[isfTay]

Volcana Do you relate to this? This is probably my favorite astrologer that makes youtube videos https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=knFG1d4I87I She makes all kinds of aspect videos that helped me understand a lot. I just looked at your chart again and your sun is conjunct pluto and in the 8th house where pluto naturally stays, so it makes sense that you relate a lot to plutonian energy. You kinda have to connect things together with whatever aspects you have that blend the energy. https://astrologyking.com/sun-conjunct-pluto/ https://theastrocodex.com/natal-sun-in-the-8th-house/ I imagine a libra sun dynamic with pluto would be a lot of self creating and reconstructing artistically. Pluto wants to recreate/destroy old ways and Libra/venus wants to do so artistically.
Here's a vid of an astrologer describing Libra's archetype https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2xQ-mCeeqcU

Off the top of my head, since Libra is ruled by venus, its archetype would be very feminine, venus being the most feminine planet vs mars as the most stereotypically masculine. Whatever a female's venus sign is in her chart is the way she expresses her femininity as well as her individual expression. Venus shows where we can experience pleasure and enjoyment. Its archetype is the arts, all that is recreational and meant for pleasure, as well as providing justice to the collective. Libra is a cardinal sign as well which makes them go getters and needing to initiate changes. Constantly considering more information to delegate. A very logic oriented archetype as well as commonly gifted in the arts. Libra/Venus rules the 7th house in astrology which is the house of partnership and the "other" opposite the 1st house of "self". 7th house energy softens presence and creates a harmony between the self and others, the diplomatic house..

However, having so much pluto/8th house creates more disruption and need for "rocking the boat" needing to recreate and in the sign of libra utilizing what those libra qualities of arts can do to help with your recreation.

[Eclipsed]

It seems closely reminiscent to 458 exorcism, no?

[Animal]

Thank you so much for this. I'll check it tomorrow, been editing all day. And yeah, Space, it really sounds like it :O
I do feel this combination of energy is correct. I'm not others-focused like Libra descriptions, but I am obsessive as all hell when it comes to my one partner. I did so much work to prepare to find my soulmate and refused to settle for less.

[Animal]

Do you relate to this? This is probably my favorite astrologer that makes youtube videos https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=knFG1d4I87I She makes all kinds of aspect videos that helped me understand a lot.

Here's a vid of an astrologer describing Libra's archetype https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2xQ-mCeeqcU

Argh! I finally have time to watch these. I'm gonna answer the rest of this post and then start a new one for video reactions.

I just looked at your chart again and your sun is conjunct pluto and in the 8th house where pluto naturally stays, so it makes sense that you relate a lot to plutonian energy. You kinda have to connect things together with whatever aspects you have that blend the energy. https://astrologyking.com/sun-conjunct-pluto/ https://theastrocodex.com/natal-sun-in-the-8th-house/ I imagine a libra sun dynamic with pluto would be a lot of self creating and reconstructing artistically. Pluto wants to recreate/destroy old ways and Libra/venus wants to do so artistically.

This couldn't possibly be more accurate. The descriptions are really spot on. I don't even know where to begin but I'm sure you can tell from my posts thus far. These descriptions are spelled out, as well as visually demonstrated, on the first page of my website, where I introduce myself. It shows in how I describe my life story. I mean.. really really spot on. Thank you for this.

Is my aspect to Pluto a strong one?

I'm going to post my chart here just to make it easier.

Off the top of my head, since Libra is ruled by venus, its archetype would be very feminine, venus being the most feminine planet vs mars as the most stereotypically masculine. Whatever a female's venus sign is in her chart is the way she expresses her femininity as well as her individual expression. Venus shows where we can experience pleasure and enjoyment. Its archetype is the arts, all that is recreational and meant for pleasure, as well as providing justice to the collective. Libra is a cardinal sign as well which makes them go getters and needing to initiate changes. Constantly considering more information to delegate. A very logic oriented archetype as well as commonly gifted in the arts. Libra/Venus rules the 7th house in astrology which is the house of partnership and the "other" opposite the 1st house of "self". 7th house energy softens presence and creates a harmony between the self and others, the diplomatic house..

However, having so much pluto/8th house creates more disruption and need for "rocking the boat" needing to recreate and in the sign of libra utilizing what those libra qualities of arts can do to help with your recreation.

First of all I have never been particularly 'feminine.' I have a male alter ego, who posts on this site. He's had his own facebook and screen names forever. I considered at one point if I might be transgendered but I decided since I don't have body dysphoria, it's more that I experience myself having a hunter-chaser focused mentality rather than a feminine submissive or nurturing mentality.

In relationships I'm the power and he's the beauty. I only want beautiful, sweet men who are gentler and more emotive than me. I'm the dominant force when it comes to the world, like getting stuff done, having vision, organization etc. I do this by myself even more successfully. But he is there so I feel like there's a home to return to, aside from just my long lost home planet.

I have never considered myself particularly 'rebellious.' I don't rebel or comply, although most people think I'm rebellious because I'm so far from the status quo. I always did great in school, did my chores, worked and understood the value of it etc. I didn't have some point to prove. But, I have a very separate vision, a way of life and mentality that is mine, and mine alone. I didn't watch tv growing up even though my whole family did, and I was pretty oblivious and unconcerned with the media, even though people made fun of me badly for it. Who cares? The status quo was not something I needed to 'rebel against,' it just didn't interest me. I had a whole world inside me as early on as I can remember. I wrote my first TWO 400-page books on computer by the time I was 12, and half a musical. The main character in all three was a prostitute, but one of the books was on another planet. I wrote a pretty graphic intense song when I was 11 about the experience of giving herself up to a stranger for the first time, out of desperation for cash. Meanwhile she pined for another guy who she worshipped, but who was too good for her. Then, the same story changed to another planet and the woman was a tough person. She was abused as a kid, and used for sex, and then got employed as a prostitute spy which allowed her to get away from her family but...she accidentally fell in love with someone on the team she was supposed to be spying on. The rest of the drama ensued from there.

And I lived in this world. I had a few friends and brought them into it as long as I could, and when we were old enough that it became personal and other people wouldnt' do it, I did it my myself and spent lunch periods alone in the music room composing these musicals and songs. Through my obsession with music and the darker side of life, I became friends with guys who others might see as badass or rebel - and then dated one. But he was a fallen hero, truly a romantic sweet person. That relationship happened just after I had lost everything, and it left a major mark. I called myself "Animal" on forums for years but I always said, HE was the real animal. He was an emblem of something very real in me, something absolutely central - which was my survivalist streak. I had written novels and musical about this homeless survivalist life which he actually lived since a young age. He made my dreams real.

I've always been a go-getter which is why I had a music career at age 16, I was ugly but worked my ass off and became masterful. But the go-getting is about actualizing my personal vision. The other stuff is just fluff to help me - for instance, if I work in a store to pay the bills, I'm supporting my real work which is writing. I have no desire to work my way up on anyone else's ladder. I'm happy to be a corporate slave provided the hours give me enough time to work on my real work, which is my own personal vision. Competing with the outside world for the same goals is just not a thing; the outside world is just there to aid me in my quest to bring my own world to life.

I definitely don't consider "more information." In fact, I limit my information intake - I keep very few friends, ignore the media, don't learn about anything except the very few things I care about.... I don't like to crowd my head with extraneous noise. I am completely and absolutely focused on my inner world, and honing my own specialty which allows me to share it. Typology and archetype study has become an important part of this. Once I have a vision, my path crystallizes and then I follow it without question, charging forth at any cost. I really don't think much in this sense. It's like it goes straight from the depths of my soul into relentless action. I never consider alternatives, although I am opportunistic and find ways to maneuver things in my favor. I'm meticulous where it counts - for instance I've been working on my book for more years than I want to admit, but it's because I simply sucked at writing and I refuse to do injustice to my vision, which I trust, in and of itself, is powerful and worth conveying. I need to hone my writing skills and I do anything in my power to do so, including writing on forums.

When it comes to men, I decide who I want (someone pretty) and then I chase. I like shy guys. For years I was insecure and thought I would not be wanted if I chased. I resented being female because men could serenade someone at her window or bring her flowers, and dote on her and wax poetic about her beauty, and this is what I wanted to do to express my feelings to the men I liked, but I couldn't, because if a woman does those things it would be creepy. I also had a certain style in mind with a brown leather vest open in the middle, displaying a big necklace and a nice chest - but this only works on a man. I always felt much sexier when dressed as my male character, who covers his face (my face is feminine) but I would get his body posture down easily --- much more easily than trying to pose sexy in my own pics, which doesnt work out for me. Bottom line I feel much sexier as a man. I feel much more in my element thinking of myself as the chaser. I like it that Daeva often makes me come to him, and I'm the one who is "hungry" and also quite pushy, and also the one who gets things done fast whereas he is more meticulous and thoughtful. In my collages I have yet to find a representation of me, down to the core, that is female. but this one picture really encapsulates me, and I've used him in so many collages....

You can also see that he's like me, I'm not making this up.

I'm on the bottom and on the left. You can see that fourish shame with the head hanging down and burning eyes looking up.. and the unrelenting focus. So I'm not sure if I'm masculine or feminine, or if it's just that my energetic archetype is more often associated with male figures.

(I am not fond of this collage, but it gets the point across.)

Then there's the "pleasure" aspect. To me, the idea of chasing happiness is completely pointless. Emotions change throughout the day. You're happy, sad, laughing, angry, whatever.... sometimes just flat. This is fine; it's the rhythm of life. I would never chase happiness as if it's something that can be found and kept. In fact I find the notion boring. The idea of doing art "for pleasure" actually makes my spikes go up, although I guess you could argue I get masochistic pleasure out of it. It's more like I bleed out my soul into this art in order to transform and communicate my vision. I sacrifice all momentary pleasures for the grit that it requires to master these techniques, edit tiny words on a screen. I have a line in a song: "The blood of my songs rips my suffering bare, and I callous my skin." The pleasure lies in the catharsis, but the path to it is grueling. I spent years going through an incredibly strenuous process to sing through my whisper, which required a strict lifestyle to keep my voice going, strict diet, constant vacuuming , sacrificing most social things, not talking in public, working horrible shitty jobs in the background to pay for rehearsals and equipment... all for the moments I'd sing on stage and ultimately, the album. But when my first album was done, there was a party in my honor and I didn't even want to go. I was dying to get to the studio to record the next one, which was already written. And that was what I talked about at the party, too.

I don't find "pleasure" particularly beautiful or relatable. I am turned on by delayed gratification, a huge challenge, an impossible feat; one that is meaningful and digs so deep inside of me that it unveils something central to humanity. Men who turn me on are hard to get, out of my league, or very coy. The pleasure is in ripping myself to shreds in order to impress him. The bottom line is that I transform suffering into beauty, and that is why beauty follows me everywhere. While most people stuff their shadows and demons in the closet, I lure them out to dance with my angels, and this is where real beauty lies. At least, for me.

This is an old picture of me as a muse, before I followed my male alter ego into exile from Erosia - and a line from my song. The pure, white beauty is perfection (my line to one), but I am always destined to chase the desire and blood that stains me red. Thus, fire is my soul color.

[devo]

[Animal]

So true, and they're more up my alley... Eminem is also very close to my tritype.

[Animal]

Things have changed - obviously since we discovered Pluto that has been linked to Scorpio, and Mars to Ares etc. But everyone knows that Mars used to be linked to Scorpio. This is common knowledge. No one talks about Hephaestus and Vulcan being linked to Libra. Why?? What is the point of declawing it? Also Atelier has talked about Cancer being cuckolded (along with Libra)... but Artemis is a total badass.

This is what came up first for each on Google:

Artemis
Artemis, in the ancient Greek religion and myth, is the goddess of the hunt, the wilderness, wild animals, the Moon, and chastity. Artemis is the daughter of Zeus and Leto, and the twin sister of Apollo. She was the patron and protector of young girls, and was believed to bring disease upon women and relieve them of it.

Diana
Mythology
Diana is a goddess in Roman and Hellenistic religion, primarily considered a patroness of the countryside, hunters, crossroads, and the Moon. She is equated with the Greek goddesses Artemis and Hecate, and absorbed much of Artemis' mythology early in Roman history, including a birth on the island of Delos to parents Jupiter and Latona, and a twin brother, Apollo, though she had an independent origin in Italy.Wikipedia
Symbol:Bow and quiver, deer, hunting dogs, crescent moon

Hephaestus is much less glamorous than Artemis but at least has a personality, whereas modern internet astrologers outright admit that Libra is the only sign who is associated with an inanimate object instead of a God or Goddess or animal. Seriously what the hell is wrong with them???

Hephaestus
Hephaestus is the Greek god of blacksmiths, metalworking, carpenters, craftsmen, artisans, sculptors, metallurgy, fire, and volcanoes. Hephaestus' Roman equivalent is Vulcan. In Greek mythology, Hephaestus was either the son of Zeus and Hera or he was Hera's parthenogenous child.

Vulcan
Mythology
Vulcan is the god of fire including the fire of volcanoes, deserts, metalworking, and the forge in ancient Roman religion and myth. He is often depicted with a blacksmith's hammer. The Vulcanalia was the annual festival held August 23 in his honor. His Greek counterpart is Hephaestus, the god of fire and smithery.Wikipedia
Symbol:Blacksmith's hammer

Bottom line, we are right that these signs are cuckolded, and they are wrong to portray it that way.

[Animal]

Vulcan was an exile, cast out of the heavens by his parents because he was ugly. He was adopted by an underwater dweller, and there he mastered skills in creating beautiful things, some of which he gifted to his adoptive mother. When his birth mother found out what beauty he was capable of producing, she wanted him back - but he built gorgeous enticing contraptions to trap her (a beautiful chair, in this story). To set her free, Vulcan's father offered Aphrodite's hand to Vulcan. So the ugliest God got to marry the most beautiful because of his vengeful and beautiful traps. He was the God of the forge, turning shit to gold, which gave him a path out of exile - though he remained essentially exiled due to his bitterness about it. He developed a separate identity from the family.

This is a somewhat similar story to the Phantom of the Opera. There is "creating beauty" and "marriage" in this story, but no peacemaking pushover present.