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How do Ideal Relationships come to be? Soulmates, Circumstance, LOA? Discuss.

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    How do Ideal Relationships come to be? Soulmates, Circumstance, LOA? Discuss.

    Angle 1) Due to chance and circumstance, you end up with someone, but it could have been so many other people, too.

    Tim Minchin claims:

    Your love is one in a million
    You couldn't buy it at any price
    But of the 9.999 hundred thousand other loves
    Statistically, some of them would be equally nice



    Lyrics:

    SPOILER
    Yeah, yeah
    If I didn't have you

    If I didn't have you to hold me tight
    (If I didn't have you)
    If I didn't have you to lie with at night
    (When I'm feeling blue)
    If I didn't have you to share my sighs
    (Share my sighs)
    And to kiss me and dry my tears when I cry

    Well I really think that I would...
    Have somebody else

    (If I didn't have you)
    If I didn't have you, someone else would do

    Your love is one in a million
    (One in a million)
    You couldn't buy it at any price
    (Can't buy love)
    But of the 9.999 hundred thousand other loves
    Statistically, some of them would be equally nice
    (Equally nice)
    Or maybe not as nice but, say, smarter than you
    Or dumber but better at sport or tracing
    I'm just saying
    (I really think that I would)
    Probably
    (Have somebody else)

    Yeah

    (If I didn't have you)
    If I didn't have you someone else would do
    (Someone else would surely do)

    If I were a rich man
    Diddle-diddle-diddle-diddle-diddle-diddle-diddle-ee
    I guess I would be with a surgeon or a model
    Or a rellie of the Royals or a Kennedy
    Or a nymphomonical exhibitionist heiress to a large chain of hotels
    If I were a rich man, maybe I would fiddle
    Fiddle-diddle-diddle with the rich man girls

    I'm not saying that I'd not love you if I was wealthy or handsome
    But realistically there's lots of fish in the sea
    And if I had a different rod I would concievably land some
    Even though I am fiscally consistantly pitiable
    And considerably less Brad Pitt than Brad Pitiful
    Am I really so poor and ugly that you reckon only you could possibly love me?
    And I
    (Really think that I would)
    Probably
    (Have somebody else)

    (If I didn't have you)
    If I didn't have you, someone else would do
    (Someone else would surely do)

    And look, I'm not undervaluing what we've got when I say
    That given the role chaos inevitably plays in the inherently flawed notion of "fate"
    It's obtuse to deduce that I've found my soulmate at the age of seventeen
    It's just mathematically unlikely that at a university in Perth
    I happened to stumble on the one girl on Earth specifically designed for me

    And if I may conjecture a further objection, love is nothing to do with destined perfection
    The connection is strengthened, the affection simply grows over time
    Like a flower
    Or a mushroom
    Or a guinea pig
    Or a vine
    Or a sponge
    Or bigotry
    ... or a banana

    And love is made more powerful by the ongoing drama of shared experience
    And the synergy of a kind of symbiotic empathy or... something

    So I trust it would go without saying
    That I would feel really very sad
    If tomorrow you were to fall off something high
    Or catch something bad
    But I'm just saying
    I don't think you're special
    I-I mean, I think your special
    But you fall within a bell curve
    I mean, I'm just saying I
    (Really think that I would)
    Probably
    (Have somebody else)

    I think you are unique and beautiful
    (Unique and beaut)
    You make me happy just by being around
    (Being around)
    But objectively, you would have to agree that baby when I found you
    Options were relatively thin on the ground
    (Thin on the ground)
    You're lovely but there must be girls as lovely as you
    And maybe more open to spanking or table tennis
    I'm just saying
    (Really think that I would)
    Probably
    (Have somebody else)

    I mean I reckon it's pretty likely that if, for example
    My first girlfriend, Jackie, hadn't dumped me
    After I kissed Winston's ex-girlfriend Neah at Steph's party back in 1993
    And our variables would probably have been altered by the absence of that event
    To have meant the advent of a tangential narrative in which we don't meet
    Which is to say there exists a theoretical hypothetical parallel life
    Where what is is not as it is and I am not your husband and you are not my wife

    And I am a stuntman living in LA
    Married to a small, blonde Portuguese skier
    Who, when she's not training
    Does abstract painting
    Practices yoga
    And brews her own beer
    And really like making home movies
    And suffers neck down alopecia

    But with all my heart and all my mind, I know one thing is true
    I have just one life and just one love and, my love, that love is you
    And if it wasn't for you, darling you

    (Really think that I would)
    Probably
    (Have somebody else)

    (If I didn't have you)
    If I didn't have you someone else would surely do


    His approach is to claim circumstances lead to more circumstances and he ended up with someone wonderful, but if things had gone differently, he might have ended up equally happy with someone else. In the song he mentions statistic probability.

    Angle 2) You can love someone who fits a certain "archetype."

    The idea here is that you can love many people, but they have to be a certain "archetype." Astrology talks about ideal synastry between couples, socionics claims your "dual" is your ideal match, and so on. The idea is that your 'archetype' calls for a complimentary 'archetype' and this would lead to a more ideal relationship. However, that archetype can be found in many people; it's not limited to just 'your soulmate.' Some people learn systems of archetypes for the sake of understanding their psyche and that of their 'ideal match,' and thus search for partners who fit that archetype. For example you might see an ad on a dating site like: "Female Libra seeking a male Aries."

    Angle 3) Soulmates, Fate, or God's Plan

    There are many ways to view the meaning of 'soulmates.' Is it two people whose souls were one, separated at birth? Is it two who meet each other in past lives and future lives? Is it simply God's plan? Either way, this angle claims that there's one person out there for you, and no one else would reach the same heights with you.

    Some would say that no matter how broken you are, no matter how wrong the time in your life is, and no matter how difficult the logistics - meeting your soulmate will heal you both. The dynamic itself is the ideal, and the rest falls into place. Some will search forever for their soulmate while others will resign that they were not destined to find their soulmate during this lifetime, and commit to being single or to marrying someone else.

    Angle 4) Chemical attraction

    Simple. Love is driven mostly by chemicals. We are all animals, and the point of sex and attraction is to reproduce. The person whose chemicals fit certain equations are the ones we are most drawn to. There are tests to determine how this works, such as men sweating into a shirt and a woman smelling it, and scientists measuring how much it turned her on. I heard about a study that proved this sweat scent matched the woman's father. I'm not claiming that's true, as I didn't see the study myself, but just pointing out that this is the sort of dialogue around this idea.

    Angle 5) The Shadow Self is confronted in Love

    Many people - not to mention, psychoanalysts over the years - would claim romantic attraction is a way to confront your own shadows. Today, I see conversations claiming our ideal partner is a projection of your own anima or animus. The idea is, without this 'shadow play,' love is inadequate. The passion is missing. Of course, this last view is not mutually exclusive from the others, but it's an additional 'factor' involved in what makes a relationship desirable.

    I touched on this in my song, here - although it was about desire, not 'ideal relationship.' But you can extrapolate.



    SPOILER
    I wanna be Ruby just for today
    I wanna be carefree just for today
    I wanna be macho like a man
    I wanna make love just cuz I can

    I wanna feel sexy when I confess
    I need to get wasted and make a mess
    I wanna be dirty with no excuse
    I wanna be chased while I run loose

    You give me freedom with your one night stands
    You give me freedom with your cruel demands
    Cuz I'm an angel, yes I'm an angel,
    Yes I'm an angel compared to you

    I wanna be twisted into your game
    I wanna be helpless and feel no shame
    I want you to kiss me in the street
    I wanna be wrong and indiscreet

    You give me freedom when you lose control
    You give me freedom with your rocknroll
    Cuz I'm a diva, yes I'm a diva
    I'm a diva compared to you

    Do you sing what you mean
    Do you hate when you scream
    Do you love who you serenade
    Do you fear those who you betrayed?

    I wanna be Ruby just for today
    I wanna be carefree just for today
    I want you to need me til you shake
    I wanna be loved for my mistake


    The idea is that the lover embodies the shadow part of ourselves. In my particular case, I lived in this shadow for years and strove to improve, but this man embodied that lifestyle. My lust compelled me to return to my old ways, but I needed to resist to make my life meaningful. So he symbolized a conflict inside myself. Some might say this person was 'bad for me,' but some might get involved in these dark relationships and believe that both parties could come out the other side, healed.

    Angle 6) Self-work & Commitment/ LOA

    Law of Attraction falls under the same umbrella as 'Self work' where love is concerned. It is the idea that you can't love anyone else until you love yourself, and as long as you work on yourself, you'll attract someone to your energy. Books like The Art of Seduction, by Robert Greene, offer tips to allure people in general - and PUA is a modern offshoot of this school of thought. But some approaches are more soulful than others. For instance, many LOA practitioners would tie this into working on yourself, confronting your own shadow and healing your wounds.

    Angle 7) Love Grows

    This is the principle that allows arranged marriages to survive. It also explains the sentiment: "If you can't be with the one you love, love the one you're with." Today, many relationships start with attraction or pregnancy, and then evolve into situations where someone must work to keep the passion alive. Some would argue that all relationships will end up this way, so we might as well learn to make it work with our current partner, rather than running away to pursue some fantasy ideal of a perfect relationship. "Perfection is the enemy of good," or so they say. Love would be seen as a product of commitment, time, and sharing experience.




    ___________

    There may be other views I've left out. If so, feel free to mention them! Also, the ideas on the list are not necessarily mutually exclusive.

    That said, What is your take on this? How do you imagine love comes to be? How do you (or did you) seek love?
    Last edited by Animal; 10-25-2019, 01:27 PM.

    #2
    Ah.. the colors of love...

    Something to consider:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Color_...theory_of_love
    Theory by John Alan Lee

    Primary types of love

    Eros

    Ludus
    Ludus, means "game" in Latin. Lee uses the term to describe those who see love as a desiring to want to have fun with each other, to do activities indoor and outdoor, tease, indulge, and play harmless pranks on each other. The acquisition of love and attention itself may be part of the game.

    Ludic lovers want to have as much fun as possible. When they are not seeking a stable relationship, they rarely or never become overly involved with one partner and often can have more than one partner at a time. They don't reveal their true thoughts and feelings to their partner, especially if they think they can gain some kind of advantage over their partner. The expectation may also be that the partner is also similarly minded. If a relationship materializes it would be about having fun and indulging in activities together. This love style carries the likelihood of infidelity. In its most extreme form, ludic love can become sexual addiction.

    Examples of ludus in movies include Dangerous Liaisons, Cruel Intentions, and Kids.

    Storge
    Storge is the Greek term for familial love. Lee defines Storge as growing slowly out of friendship and is based more on similar interests and a commitment to one another rather than on passion. However he chooses Storge, rather than the term Philia (the usual term for friendship) to describe this kind of love.

    There is a love between siblings, spouses, cousins, parents and children. Storge necessitates certain familial loyalties, responsibilities, duties and entitlements. The dwelling is to be sanctuary for its members and all members of a family are to pull through together in difficult times. Except for marriage, all other relationships have existed often by blood for as long as the individuals have known each other. In marriage, a couple, who formerly did not accord each other this love, promise to extend and build this love and form a new bond of kinship. Family members hold each other in good esteem to the outside world. Insults undermine the connected family reputations. In many judicial systems a family member cannot be asked to testify in court against a member of one's immediate family for a crime external to family. Storgic love often develops gradually out of friendship, or out of extended duration of cohabitation[citation needed. The friendship in some cases can endure beyond the breakup of the relationship.

    Examples of storge can be seen in movies including Love & Basketball, When Harry Met Sally..., and Zack and Miri Make a Porno.

    Lee's recognizable traits:

    Is not looking for love but is ready if encountered
    Quietly possessive but not overly jealous
    Believes love comes from friendship but not a goal of life
    Only has sexual desires after commitment is declared

    Secondary types of love
    The three secondary types of love are mania, agape and pragma.


    Mania
    Mania is from the Latin for "mental disorder", from which we get the term "manic". Lee defines manic love as flowing out of a desire to hold one's partner in high esteem and wanting to love and be loved in this way seeing specialness in the interaction. This type of love leads a partner into a type of madness and obsessiveness. It is represented by the color purple, as it is a mix between ludus and eros.

    Manic lovers speak of their partners in possessives and superlatives, and feel they "need" their partners. Love is a means of rescue, or a reinforcement of value. Manic lovers value finding a partner through chance without prior knowledge of financial, educational, or personality dispositions. Insufficient expression of the love of mania by one's partner can cause one to perceive the partner as aloof, materialistic and detached. In excess, mania becomes obsession or codependency and could come about as being very possessive and jealous. One example from real life can be found in the unfortunate John Hinckley, Jr., a mentally disturbed individual who attempted to assassinate US President Ronald Reagan, due to a misperception that this would prompt the actress Jodie Foster to finally reciprocate his obsessive love. Hinckley's continuing behavior to date would seem to show that he has not been able to transcend his obsession, and this would again seem to be consistent with a deviant form of manic love.

    Extreme examples of mania in popular culture include yandere anime and manga characters. Mania ise a central theme in thes movies: Endless Love, Fatal Attraction, Misery, Play Misty for Me, Swimfan, and Taxi Driver.

    Lee's recognizable traits:

    Anxious about falling in love and has expectations of pain
    Quickly becomes overwhelmed by thoughts of their partner
    Forces partner into showing affection and emotion
    Is easily frustrated and does not enjoy sexual intimacy
    Is very possessive and jealous

    Agape
    Agape is a Greek term for altruistic love. Lee describes Agape as the purest form of love, derives this definition of love from being altruistic towards one's partner and feeling love in the acts of doing so. The person is willing to endure difficulty that arises from the partner's circumstance. It is based on an unbreakable commitment and an unconditional, selfless love, that is all giving. It is an undying love that is full of compassion and selflessness. Agape love is often referenced with religious meaning and is signified by the color orange.

    Agapic lovers view their partners as blessings and wish to take care of them. The agapic lover gets more pleasure from giving in a relationship than from receiving. They will remain faithful to their partners to avoid causing them pain and often wait patiently for their partners after a break-up. Agape requires one to be forgiving, patient, understanding, loyal, and willing to make sacrifices for their partner. An agapic lover believes that this love is unconditional, though lovers taking an agapic stance to relationships risk suffering from inattention to their own needs. The advantage of agapic love is its generosity. A disadvantage is that it can induce feelings of guilt or incompetence in a partner. There is the potential to be taken advantage of. In its deviant form, agape can become Martyrdom. Martyrdom for principle may be acceptable; martyrdom to maintain a relationship is considered psychologically unhealthy.

    Examples of agape can be found in books and movies including The Gift of the Magi by O. Henry, Penelope in Odyssey, The Mission, Somewhere in Time, Titanic, Untamed Heart, Forrest Gump, and The Bible.

    Lee's recognizable traits:

    Attracted to several types of people
    Meets people easily so most likely will begin with a stranger
    Feels concern and care for each partner they have
    Is neither jealous nor obsessive
    Enjoys sex and is willing to improve it

    Pragma
    Pragma derives from a Greek term, meaning "businesslike". Lee defines pragma as the most practical type of love, not necessarily derived out of true romantic love. Rather, pragma is a convenient type of love.

    Pragmatic lovers have a notion of being of service which they perceive to be rational and realistic. While they may be sincere about being useful themselves it also translates to having expectations of a partner and of the relationship. They tend to select and reject partners based on what they perceive as desirable, compatible traits. Pragmatic lovers want to find value in their partners, and ultimately want to work with their partner to reach a common goal. The practicality and realism of pragmatic love often aides longevity of the relationship, as long as common goals and values remain shared for the duration. Excessive thinking along these lines causes a relationship to be seen for its utility or as a trade or exchange. The attitude can become disdainful and toxic if one sees the other as a burden. Emphasis switches to earning, affordability, child care or home service. Pragmatic love as a form of cooperation or symbiosis should not be considered as a negative type of attitude. In a collectivist culture where arranged marriage is practiced, pragmatic love is very common at the time of mate selection (Chaudhuri, 2004). Values are likely to be shared by a couple in developing countries, where survival and wealth building are often prioritized over other life pursuits.

    Examples of pragma can be found in books, movies, and TV including Ordinary People, Pride and Prejudice (Charlotte), and House of Cards (Frank and Claire Underwood). Political marriages are often a real-life example of pragma-style lovers.

    Lee's recognizable traits:

    Certain of their preferable "types"
    Begins a relationship with an already familiar person
    Believes a loving relationship is desirable for a happy life
    Expects reciprocation of feelings
    Believes sexual compatibility can be worked out
    Sleep on the Ceiling - Erosian Exile

    Comment


      #3
      Daeva ). Due to my careful study of myself and what I bring to relationships as well as what I want from them, and what makes me thrive; I recognized the one who would fulfill me completely (Daeva) instantly, and married him.

      On the point about 'no one ever gets over their first love' - yeah, I will love him forever. Love doesn't just disappear. However, this does not STOP me from loving Daeva - if anything it enriches my love for Daeva because it gave me wisdom that I could apply to this relationship, so I don't make certain mistakes. Though I will always have a place in my heart for my ex, there is absolutely NO contest, no question, no debate - that my love for Daeva is way beyond this. Had I met them both at once, I surely would have chased Daeva instead of my ex. I am certain. But they do share 6w5 Sp/Sx with 9 fix and TiSe. And their facial expressions look quite similar. So you know. They are very different people, with different values, backgrounds and skills, but the interpersonal dynamic and communication style was clearly what I NEEDED and my first love simply showed me that it's out there and I should not settle for less. Instead, it left me determined to pursue something EVEN BETTER for me. The loss was horrible and it took me 18 years to fully recover and feel like I could give my heart away to another man; but I refused to give up on myself, and settle for less.

      Now, to cover this fully - for women who want to have kids, the clock is ticking. So it makes sense to go with something that works even if it doesn't feel like a soulmate. Also there are financial and comfort/friend reasons to get married and I'm not denying the importance of this. The major reason I decided not to have kids when I was a CHILD was because I didn't want kids, in any circumstance, to tie me to a man who wasn't my soulmate. I figured if I had my soulmate AND adequate finances at some point before I'm 40 then maybe I'd consider having kids. Seriously, I thought of this when I was a child. I refused to be kept from my ART and from my SOULMATE due to ethics around taking care of others. Obviously there was a chance I could die without ever meeting him but I would rather that than tie myself down to a situation where it's impossible to meet him. So in my case, it's a matter of PRIORITIES.

      Her (paraphrase):
      If you had not met Daeva when you did, would there be no other one?

      Me:
      Well... it certainly seems possible. I dated a lot before and never felt they were 'it.' I saw a version of Daeva in a dream. I wrote characters who share not only his typology but also his personal symbolism and colors. I do find this to be a difficult question though because of course my heart and blood wants to say "it HAD to be him" - but I think realistically, on a grand scale for people who don't have visions and prophesies etc, it might be different.

      I have reasons beyond 'logic' to feel like it couldn't have been someone else, and I have logic that tells me "maybe it could if someone else was a similar archetype" - but I think my 'beyond logic' is more correct . However, my gut tells me it's not the case for others. I had those visions for a reason, presumably. It's likely that most people have a variety of people they can be happy with so long as they fit certain parameters. But I tuned into the cosmos willfully and determined to find 'the one.'
      Last edited by Animal; 10-25-2019, 05:38 PM.

      Comment


        #4
        Daeva I can see shades of all of those kinds of love between my boyfriend and me depending on the scenario. I should write up a longer post with examples of how I see them all, but it makes sense to me that most couples would probably exhibit them all to certain degrees if the relationship is relatively stable. For instance, I can see Ludus in how we mess with each other. We used to throw ice down each other's shirts when we both worked together. I can also see Pragma, because there are many conveniences to being together. I mean he taught me to drive. Sometimes he is much better at things I am not, so that is a pragmatic element etc. I have examples for the rest, but I'll have to flesh it out more later. Our relationship also definitely started with a highly manic element of possessiveness. I don't think that's gone, just less insane with other elements balanced. We are both highly possessive, which we've both agreed we feel
        The day is done, and the darkness

        Falls from the wings of Night,

        As a feather is wafted downward

        From an eagle in his flight.


        I see the lights of the village

        Gleam through the rain and the mist,

        And a feeling of sadness comes o'er me

        That my soul cannot resist:


        A feeling of sadness and longing,

        That is not akin to pain,

        And resembles sorrow only

        As the mist resembles the rain.

        Comment


          #5

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