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Aggressive 4s are the rule, not the exception

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    Aggressive 4s are the rule, not the exception

    Yes, there is a small percentage of particularly sensitive 4s who sit around reading poetry all day and crying during The Notebook, but the majority of them are pretty feisty, opinionated, even straight up spiteful if you get on their bad side. Most 4s are people who already have a pretty negative view of reality. They tend to see the positivity around them as fake, and want to get to the blood and guts of people's authentic feels, the "real" struggles of the world, the rotting underbelly. Such a type does not go around fearing confrontation or the rejection of total strangers.

    Can't argue... no puns. Save for 6, maybe some 5 too, the frustration types can be pretty dogged. 7 is aggressive by virtue, 1 by obligation. 4 by compel. But since we're talking about 4, we're talking about an emotional loner, and this creates a defensive/offensive position that is running at the same frequency of all the pangs, or self-ignorance. They are only as good as their place in time, be it youthful inspiration or mature wisdom. The rest is fraught with whatever BS that thickens the pot. Somewhere along the way, in the E annuls 4 attracted everything human, but the reality is that the problem is much more specific than would be obvious.

    Edit stuff. With 2, there is support of whatever has already been created. With 3 the transaction of maintaining the ideal creation. With 4..... this one's tricky.... the desire to exist/create outside any obligation. To this point, strangers exist everywhere. The modus is compelled to exist truly, to a fault, which at times can be quite the fantasy from a rich inner landscape.
    Last edited by Full_fathom; 08-13-2021, 07:46 PM.


      Yes, Ichazo referred to fours as "Argumentative." That was his description for them, when it came down to two words for each type. This is not a throwaway. He chose his words very carefully, and he was the student of Gurdjieff, the founder of enneagram. This type of stuff was left out of RH 4. In RH, 4 is portrayed as a wistful sweet person staring out the window longingly. While the longing and desperation is true, it's aggressive. A four hungers and desires the love & the identity they want to have, gets pissed off at the gap between that ideal and the cold hard truth of who they are and how their life is, and needs to show every side of this struggle to the people they know. Part of their identity is also their opinions. So they will argue about them.

      Fours can be shy with strangers, or not - but it has to be kept in mind that they're a heart type. An interrelational type. But this is more focused on "real" relationships for fours. So some fours might not talk to a stranger because it's fake or goes against their mood, or the stranger simply isn't interesting and the four might feel like they're not from the same universe as others. Or they might just feel flat out inadequate. (Though not all fours do; but that is beyond type. That's more about where you're at in life.) But once the four starts talking, they're gonna tell you who they are, whether you like it or not. The message is "Here I am with all my flaws - did you run away yet?"

      However - I disagree with the idea that a 'small percentage' are overly sweet and pathetic. That goes against the very principle of four, which is argumentative and desirous. If a four is behaving that way, they're simply indulging in a certain mood. But those same fours will aggressively tell you who they are, if they consider you a friend. That's a compulsion.

      And, also, four is not about being 'spiteful toward their enemies.' Four is about expressing their inner identity. Being spiteful toward your enemies is gut stuff, anger, boundaries. Or head types planning revenge. Heart types are more about expressing and connecting. They're interpersonal. A four might tell someone how pissed off they are in the moment, but then in the next moment they might love that person relentlessly. But "enemies" and "spite" is boring, a waste of our precious time - and fours are very aware of death, time running out, and the other dark sides of life. Focusing too much on enemies would take too much time away from obsessing about what they desire. Naranjo explained that 'envy' is the same word as 'desire' in French, and this is really what the sin is about in four - aggressively desiring. Suckling too much of the mother's breast. Wanting with a vengeance. If my enemies aren't desirable, fuckem. I'm gonna focus on what I desire.
      Last edited by Animal; 09-03-2021, 03:30 PM.


      • Full_fathom
        Full_fathom commented
        Editing a comment
        I think it's hard to pull 4 out of the 'love me, love me', that 2 does normally. That weird-ass tie of trying to reconcile existence with value.... virtue, peace. 'things' don't really hold value, it must be accepted. Those who would care about my things would know me. So we do our things!