The Social Instinct Thread

[Daeva]

Do you have any questions or thoughts on the Social instinct?
Do you wonder what it is all about?
How Social are you?
How does the instinct combine with type?
How does it combine with the other instincts?
What does it mean to be Social dominant, aux, or blind?
Did anything profound happen to you that reminded you of the Social instinct?

This is the thread for it! Any thoughts and arguments on the instinct are welcome!

[ledyanoy]

[Animal]

What you touched on here, basically addresses my questions about Soc.

ledyanoy I don't know if you know this, but I realized for certain I am Sp/Sx. When I first learned about instincts, I assumed social last was a no-brainer, and typed fairly quickly at Sp/Sx because I'm most obsessive about my work in the arts. Others argued Sx first because my work was my passion, which I poured my libido into. So I typed as Sx/Sp for years, but once I learned more about the 'vibe' of types, I didn't relate to the Sx/Sp vibe and instead moved to fireside Sx/So because of its connection to Sp/Sx.

I have always cried at good Soc last descriptions for the reason that I worry that nobody will care about my novel, since my focus is so insular. (This also has to do with being off-triangle, but that's another thing.)

Anyway, what I'm getting at is that my social last is obvious to me, and always was, although I did type at a low-soc variation of Sx/So for a time. People on forums often took me for an "obvious" Sx/So. I'm intense, bold, etc. I also start big projects and gravitate to the position of tribe leader. And I think this made them say "She can't be soc last." It definitely played into my own Sx/So mistype.

So this leads to my question: is social related to being 'outgoing' in any way? Because in my case, I'm at ease with people in the sense that I don't care much what they think of me and I just march in and get what I want. I would not mistake this for low empathy however. When I'm actually hooked into someone one-on-one, I feel their feelings as my own. With friends, I take on many of their problems as my own and may even fail to assert my own needs. As leader, I'll fight for the survival of the tribe and its vision. But when I'm just charging my way through life I ask for what I want without hesitation, implore people to hire me, call the waiter even though I speak in a whisper etc. I'm quite bold.

I could blame this on being 8w7 second, but others close to me who are 9 and 1 fixed are also Sp/Sx and equally unbothered by the "expected" conduct. Meanwhile, someone I'm close to irl who is Sp/So is much smoother with managing stores and being appropriate, but also more self conscious about what people think.

I thought the Sx/So typing made sense because of my intensity, expansiveness and boldness. But there's a certain boldness that comes with just not giving a fuck. It's not that I don't have a heart; it's that I really don't notice when I'm inappropriate or what the 'rules' are. And most of the time this works just fine for me because people just see it as my quirky and honest charm and they get over it.... and when they don't, I don't notice or care (unless they are good friends and I hurt them). I have always said, my charm is my lack of charm - and ironically this is exactly why I don't get too stressed about social stuff, until the moment that it hits me like an avalanche and ruins my life.

[ledyanoy]

Volcana So much great observations and meat to get into in your post. Give me a while to organize my thoughts and I would love to respond to much of what you have touched on, above.

[Animal]

Awesome. Take your time. I did a few edits for clarification.

[ledyanoy]

Volcana

[ledyanoy]

[Animal]

ledyanoy
That clarification helps a lot.

Your posts are addressing some of the concerns Daeva and I have been discussing for months. We've gone over this in Enneatude and elsewhere before that, but due to his 639 tritype (which may be 693 - the order is pending) -- we have been having trouble figuring out the balance between that and instinct.

First of all, his main issue in life is Social Anxiety. This affects other areas, of course - like work, pursuing interests involving people, etc. A lot of people online claim to be introverted, but he does not walk around parading this as if it's some kind of badge. He just doesn't connect with anyone but me. He would rather go years without friends than let someone in that isn't just so, and any time we leave the house I hear about how he 'hates people.'

One might say this is due to triple-attached sensitivity, and in our latest conversations about it, we (and others) have hypothesized that perhaps the Sp/Sx balances the triple-attached by making him sooooo distant even with that tritype. However, the question in our minds is, why does he have to hate people? Why fixate on society and blame it for his own problems? Why get worked up about it so badly that it leaks into other areas of his life if not Soc first?

We have been seriously considering So/Sp for some time. I see a good case for Sx last in the sense that he doesnt "get deep into it" with people. He's a statue to be admired from afar. Of course, this is more typical of high-Sx six, but any six has Sx somewhere, plus he's 3w4 fixed. (I personally think no matter what his instincts are, his 3 is Sx. So if he's So/Sp then his three is last but it's Sx 3.)

So he has the mannequin thing going, which he has talked about a lot over the years. "Look but don't touch." He only let one person in.

[ledyanoy]

VolcanaDaeva you can delve into maybe using creative techniques.

[ledyanoy]

Daeva

[Daeva]

The social element impacts me strongly in a few ways. One is about the sheer overwhelm of input and feeling the need to privately process things. Human interaction drains me very quickly, and I struggle to think on my feet. This is coupled with a sense of expectations that works on overdrive, making me stress out about how to behave while constantly monitoring people's reactions to me (overestimating how much others keep track of me).

Then, on top of all this, I am quite judgmental of others on how to be(have) in public - I definitely relate to you, ledyanoy , on this part (along with "culture behind glass" ). I react (on the inside) to how other people dress, how they talk, how they walk, where they walk, etc.. I feel there are unspoken rules to this that many don't follow and it bothers me a bit too much. So all of this adds to the "I hate people" sentiment and my history with social anxiety (to a debilitating degree at certain times). It's a combination of personal overwhelm, shyness, rigidity, and me being judgmental of both my own presentation and that of others.

And I love that Volcana has a certain freedom from this as it allows me to feel okay with loosening up as well.

[Animal]

And I love that Volcana has a certain freedom from this as it allows me to feel okay with loosening up as well.

Hehe. Purr
I love the way you are, too. I love that you use concise vocabulary, move like a cat and pose in beautiful posture. You embody a clean, pure and innocent, symmetrical aesthetic, like an angel thrown into a devil-chaos world. It inspires me.

[SpiritoftheGael]

Daeva I still like SO/SP for you much more. I can't even imagine paying attention to how other people are dressing and walking. It's taken me years to really stop and consider how other people will see how I dress etc, and it's still a struggle to care.

[ledyanoy]

Daeva

[Animal]

To me the 6w5 is clear as day - but as for social, it depends on the description. I hate descriptions.... . but I'll post some Chestnut tidbits.

In contrast to the Self-Preservation Six, who gets stuck in ambivalence and can't make decisions, Social Sixes have an intolerance of ambiguity. They fear ambivalence and have little tolerance of uncertainty, because to them, uncertainty equals anxiety. As a result, they have a love of precision and see things more in terms of black and white than gray.

The love of precision and the efficiency of this Social Six subtype can also make them resemble Type Threes; however, the main motivation of this Six is to avoid anxiety by finding a sense of authority in reference points, not to accomplish goals and look good through efficiency.

Social Sixes both fear making a mistake and long for certainties: a person with the subtype "wants to be talked to in a certain manner so that he or she may feel that the speaker knows, the speaker is right." They have a highly intellectual orientation, and their patterns of thinking can take the form of diagrams and flowcharts.

Lacking either trust in themselves (like the Sexual Six) or other people (like the Self-Preservation Six), Social Sixes deal with the passion of fear and its related anxiety by relying on abstract reason or a specific ideology as an impersonal frame of reference. They find safety by relying on authorities, or on the "authority of reason, rules, and rational thinking.

The enneagram, archetype systems etc. can be this authority system for him.

[ledyanoy]

VolcanaDaeva