How Anger Manifests In The Gut Center

[BalalaikaBoy]

This is just an observation, but I've noticed a big difference in the way that people deal experience anger which is strongly correlated with how close that type is 9. Put simply, 9s experience experience the most generalized anger, while types further from 9 experience anger more acutely. As I'm defining them here:
generalized anger: an ever-present, often unconscious undercurrent of anger
acute anger: anger which spikes in reaction to a specific event.

so, in order from most generalized to most acute, you have
1) 9s
2) 1w9s and 8w9s
3) 1w2s and 8w7s
4) non-gut types

from point 4 on, it varies based off of other factors. ie, cp6 is probably going to be a lot more acute in their sense of anger than 5s, who, as a whole, are less neurotic and less prone to swings of emotion in general.

[BalalaikaBoy]

btw Animal , this is why I type as gut center and not head.

[Animal]

I was just responding when your post appeared :P

[Animal]

Can you elaborate on this? Why?

[Animal]

I like where you're going with this I think? (I have to sit with it.) But just one comment for now:

generalized anger: an ever-present, often unconscious undercurrent of anger
acute anger: anger which spikes in reaction to a specific event.

For some 9s it's often unconscious. For others I notice it's quite conscious.

[BalalaikaBoy]

Animal
???????

Can you elaborate on this? Why?

my anger tends to be on the more ever-present, consistent side. the intensity of its expression will increase when I need to put someone in their place, but the actual level of anger itself hasn't spiked that much. the exception to this is when I'm in a position where I'm witnessing or experiencing injustice and my hands are tied.

In general, I can usually nip problems in the bud if I'm able to act with my natural personality without legal or bureaucratic consequences, but in some instances, people will provoke me and then run and hide behind a system or laws that are enforced unequally. the archetypal example of this is an abusive wife who hits her husband knowing that she could call the cops at any time if he so much lifts a finger back. in the absence of such circumstances though, my tendency to address problems quickly means they usually don't escalate, and that my frame and overall sense of control are difficult to break.

[BalalaikaBoy]

9's anger (on the extreme of generalized anger) tends not to be strongly associated with their current environment, but seems instead to fluctuate with their level of health. healthy 9s are consistently relaxed, unhealthy 9s are consistently pissed off. My 9w8 brother has been through periods of YEARS where he was constantly pissed off and on the brink of punching someone in the face. To this day, he kinda sucks at assertiveness because his anger is so all or nothing, so "I'm either angry at the whole world or in harmony with the whole world, so I try to stay on the harmony side of that". hence the "referee" and "peace keeper" titles for 9s.

[Animal]

In my view, any type can be really angry. There are a lot of head types whose anxiety makes them angry for instance. Also there are lines, like 4-1, 2-8. Fours can be angry via desire and frustration. Envy is a hot-blooded thing, causing anger. 2s can be pridefully angry. "You owe me..." etc. I'm using black and white scenarios here just to make my point... not reducing either type to this, of course. And sixes can be some of the angriest 'flare up' people .. paranoia can cause anger, fear causes hate, and so forth. I don't think gut types necessarily appear 'more angry.'

There's an undercurrent of anger in every gut type. 8s direct that anger at getting what they want, consolidating power. It fuels them. Anger at injustice is fuel to rectify it - raw power. Lust. There's no hesitation - just take take, do, pursue. Taking up space is taken for granted, so anger doesn't tend to build up and boil under the surface, but it is still ever present as it transforms into fuel for lusty endeavors. With 1s, they have a right time to get angry and a wrong time, so this can cause anger to build up beneath the surface and then come out in a spew of resentment. They took up space 'properly' while someone else just did what they want and filled the space. 9s want their presence to be felt, and not overlooked, but they still are attached and don't want to cause separation - so they might fill the space with innocuous chit chat to (unconsciously) avoid getting to the bottom of things. Or they might feel more separated if they don't express their anger, so they might have a need to get it all out there on the table to be 'real.' It's not as simple as "their anger is unconscious and spread out," though I think you're touching on something. Sorry, I'm very tired and dizzy so this post may be less readable than others.

[BalalaikaBoy]

Animal

There's an undercurrent of anger in every gut type

right, it's a defining characteristic, but, being in the center, 9s have the most and 1w2 and 8w7 have a bit less than 9s and w9s.

Taking up space is taken for granted, so anger doesn't tend to build up and boil under the surface, but it is still ever present as it transforms into fuel for lusty endeavors. With 1s, they have a right time to get angry and a wrong time, so this can cause anger to build up beneath the surface and then come out in a spew of resentment. They took up space 'properly' while someone else just did what they want and filled the space. 9s want their presence to be felt, and not overlooked, but they still are attached and don't want to cause separation - so they might fill the space with innocuous chit chat to (unconsciously) avoid getting to the bottom of things. Or they might feel more separated if they don't express their anger, so they might have a need to get it all out there on the table to be 'real.' It's not as simple as "their anger is unconscious and spread out," though I think you're touching on something. Sorry, I'm very tired and dizzy so this post may be less readable than others.

well said. nothing to add here at present.

[Daeva]

This isn't going to differentiate type in regards to Head vs Gut. Gut types aren't "more angry" just as Head types aren't "more anxious." Equating emotion with type is bullshit. Every human being is/has an Gut type, a Head type, and a Heart type. Generalized or acute anger depends on health level and it is a pretty meaningless distinction outside of this. There've been times where I was angry non-stop with flare-ups being rare. There've been times where anger wasn't much an issue for me until it was. I'm talking months and years. This was all health level, baby. Not type.

If you want to talk about ego constructs in relation to power and boundaries, then we can talk (Gut) type. Anger happens from there. But you're not going anywhere just talking about surface expressions.

[Animal]

Makes sense. When people start talking about anger on forums I get confused, because it feels like a natural emotion that everyone has... which comes and goes with health & circumstance. So I never know what to say.

[BalalaikaBoy]

the presence of anger is not, but how anger manifests, what triggers it and how people tend to react to it will tell you a LOT about someone's type. your reading of the OP is too simplistic. like, I explicitly used the term "undercurrent". that's the exact opposite of "surface level"

[Daeva]

In that case, your OP is too simplistic, no matter that you said "undercurrent." You never went into the specific triggers and how people react to these. You just made this up. I responded to what is in the OP, which is indeed very surface and I cannot agree with it. You made a blanket statement based on an observation as to how anger manifests. That's it. No more explanations, no search for motivations or triggers. Nothing to do with what goes on under the hood.

On top of that, my disagreement with it, namely that this says more about health level than type as I've seen and personally experienced way too much variance in the expression of anger for it to be mainly based on type, is something you conveniently ignored because you didn't like my last point. It was the meat of my criticism, by the way. Health level is the culprit you're looking for.

[Animal]

I get confused when people talk about how angry they are or aren't overall, as this changes depending on outside factors. I was excessively angry for almost a decade after I lost my voice, and had to go to the gym constantly to expel my rage - or else who knows what I would do to the people I love. Or that is how I felt. I was overloaded with angst, rage, lust, insatiate desire. All I wanted was WAR - but it was not directed at any person in particular - it was more like an overarching fury that my life was stolen from me, and a desperate determination to take it back. I knew I would stop at nothing until I beat the odds senseless.

For the most part, I directed this energy at my workouts, projects and pursuits - and did not often take my anger out on people that didn't deserve it. Romantic suitors got the brunt of it, as they often believed they could save me from my suffering, which infuriated me beyond belief as it showed me they were interested only in their white knight fantasies and weren't seeing my heart at all. My suffering is existential, and to think they could just make it go away was a shallow understanding of me. My aim was not to abolish my suffering, but to find a way to channel it into a more ideal expression, closer to what was taken from me. To find a way to express my message, the one they were unable to hear. This hurt the most when I was into someone romantically and felt isolated by my inability to express the world inside me. My body might have lovers, but my soul remained untouched and misunderstood. And this was not entirely their fault, which is where the true frustration stemmed from. I couldn't communicate my real self to anyone, because I couldn't sing. Without music, I might as well not exist, since no one can see me, or love me, at all.

I still feel fury when I think about how I was obstructed from singing, but it's manageable at this point, because I've won my humanity back through hard work. So naturally, the constant overarching fury is gone. I'm happily married, I recorded one album, my book is almost done- and I don't hate my life, although it is far from perfect. I still need to think about money, survival, illness, location, parents getting older, and so much more. But that stuff was always there - I have never been 'free of obligation,' even as a kid, as I pursued music with everything I had. I've always chosen the warriors path, the sense of purpose - which means there's always something that needs to get done - and I've been drowned in chronic illness obligations since I was sixteen - but I've rarely been angry about that. It is what it is. What infuriates me is the idea of facing all of these mundane trials for no ultimate reason, surviving but not living. I always had some sense of purpose, but after I lost my voice, it was never enough... until it was. And at that point, the anger diminished so much that I gained weight, since I no longer had constant gym fuel.

So when people talk about measuring who is an angry person and who isn't, I never know what to say. Some people see me as very angry, others see me as patient and tolerant. As for my inner experience of anger, it's a trajectory and it's quite reactionary -- as it is directly tied to my ability to express myself or not, which was obstructed by trauma. So I don't know if I "am angry" or if I'm "not angry' as a person. I really don't. All I know is that anger is fuel, and I prefer not to waste it. So I enjoy directing it into workouts, projects, political posts... and purpose.

[BalalaikaBoy]

Animal
Daeva
I still think you're making my claim out to be more single-cause than it actually is. I'm recounting an observation of one of many influences related to why people get angry and act/don't act on that anger the way they do.

[Daeva]

That's okay. I disagree with it and provided you with an alternative explanation which I think works better.

[RALA]

9's anger (on the extreme of generalized anger) tends not to be strongly associated with their current environment, but seems instead to fluctuate with their level of health. healthy 9s are consistently relaxed, unhealthy 9s are consistently pissed off.

I am neither consistently relaxed or consistently pissed off. This generalization about 9 that we are too weak to look shit in the eye and so we end up burying a lot of shit that turns into unconscious anger is something I could never relate to because I am actually the opposite of this. Animal says that this might be another side of 9 (quoting her ''. Or they might feel more separated if they don't express their anger, so they might have a need to get it all out there on the table to be 'real.' '') but fear of separation is also something I cannot relate to. MAYBE this is something that I am not consciously aware of and I still have to dig out of me. I am really the type of person who does not attach to people and that shuts people out very quickly if I feel boundaries have been crossed or if I don't like that person. But then again maybe this is also out of fear because I know that when I TRULY let someone in, they never get out, or hardly. But nah, simply most people just don't make it to my heart.

[RALA]

I did not mean you ever thought that. I just quote you regarding the fear of separation thing and how it can manifest when it comes to anger and expressing it. And yes, of course, my father for example, I refused to talk to him for 6 months because he would refuse to talk about our conflict, and I cannot for the life of me, pretend everything is fine if it isn't, and I cannot get over things unless they are expressed. I had a lot of things to say and he finally listened and I said a lot of hateful and mean things to him, but i MEANT them, and even though it hurt ME as well to hurt HIM, I do not regret it. And it is not only because i felt the need to hurt him back (although this is also a reason), but also because I have an intense need to clear the waters inside lol. And look, I think I might have hit the 9 in me with this, I cannot be at peace until I clear everything out and everything is being LOOKED AT and OWNED. If my waters are not clear and still, I can't NOT make war lol.

And about separation, it might be trauma related, but I really I am someone who can go months without talking even to my own mother and I do not feel affected in any way. It scares me sometimes. I usually do get attached to ONE person though, and like.. deeply entangled.

[Animal]

Makes sense <3 yes this is what I thought.

[RALA]

Oh and also because I need to honor my truth and my reality. It hurts ME just as it hurt him to let these things out and actually feeling like this towards him, but it's the truth and it is how I feel and I have to honor that.

[RALA]

So yeah, I really always react in the moment and strongly (which is why I can be hard to like) and everyone who knows me will tell you that I can go from angry to happy fast and this is exactly because I cannot hold shit it, which is why my sister (jokingly or not) calls me bipolar.

[Animal]

So what I'm saying is, I love your energy and admire it. I think both of us can push people away with what we do, but I love your style of directness in particular.

[RALA]

No, I do not need to express my sentiments towards people in general, i don't even notice most people. But if I am directly involved with some people when it comes to something and especially if something affects ME, i always end up saying shit that causes me to not be liked or wanted. But luckily, it does not affect me. But I dont have a need to give my opinion and sentiments about every each person because i do not care and do not notice most people. I am strictly talking about situations I am directly involved in, OR when i am witnessing some kind of thing where i notice shitty behaviors or characters and i feel sorry for someone and i want to defend them or if i just want to get in a verbal conflict with someone whose behavior i puts me off. Because why the heck not? Its fun lol

[RALA]

And yes, but the strong and worthy will not be pushed away and so I am glad because it filters people out and i love ya too, always <3

[RALA]

Oh and by the way, I have to clarify something I realized: I know I talk a lot about my anger and how people sometimes comment and ask me if there is something wrong or if I am angry based on my expressions. AND even if I do indeed experience a lot of anger and hatred inside that go way back to deeper wounds that EVERYONE has and it is really not type related, I do not act angry and pissed in a day to day life, this is not how I am as a person. It is VERY hard to get a negative reaction out of me and it is VERY hard to make me angry because I am - and have no shame in admitting it - a pretty cold person and people's opinions and behaviors do not affect me on a deep level at all. I can get in conflicts pretty often indeed but not without a reason, I don't just pick fights for the heck of it with people in general (only romantically when I get bored haha )I just say what I think and want when something bothers me and I have something to say, and to get a reaction out of me, especially an uncontrolled and angry one, is very very hard. I don't give people that satisfaction and I love it when people lose their shit over this. I have been told numerous time, during conflicts and not, how annoying I am for treating shit in a cold way and with a smirk on my face. And I do understand how this can trigger people, I remember my cousin telling me she was annoyed by how unaffected and careless I seemed to be. People love it when they think they hurt you with something they did or said. But guess what, even though sometimes I do get hurt and affected, most times I GENUINELY don't give a single fuck.

[RALA]

Animal but my problem might be that I need both war and still waters

[RALA]

Actually, this feels closer to home: I need war because only war clears my waters. It purifies me.


Aaaand i am spamming this thread oops

[Animal]

Beautiful <3 <3

[Animal]

I relate to that too.. "the phoenix cannot rise if it does not first burn." Might as well be my life motto.