Who has the "authority" to teach enneagram? - a theoretical question.

[Animal]

A brief history of the Enneagram teachers:

1. Gurdjieff taught "Fourth Way" and founded a system and philosophy around the enneagram wheel itself.
2. Gurdjieff taught Ichazo, who also wrote about the Enneagram of personality.
3. Ichazo taught Naranjo, who wrote a bunch of books, mostly in line with Ichazo but also with some small changes and critiques, which he openly sourced.
4. Naranjo taught Maitri, Almaas, Ochs, and others.
5. Ochs took enneagram to the Christian communities where it became a little more widespread.
6. In one of those communities, Riso & Hudson got a hold of enneagram, and without any formal reason, they declared themselves masters and started giving out certificates to others, making it so you have to pay them to get a certification.
7. Naranjo and Ichazo both wrote that their work had been plagiarized and completely fucked up by later writers; that modern enneagram writers had missed the point, had gone completely off track, distorted the meanings of the types, and misused the enneagram. This is written and you can find it easily in the forwards in some of Naranjo's books, and I'm still looking into more documentation too.
8. R&H taught the Fauvres.
9. Hudson taught Orpheus Luckovich.

There is more, but I am still filling in the spaces.

So what do you think? Who has the authority to teach enneagram? Me? You? RH? Any other ideas?
Which works deserve the title "Traditional Enneagram?"

[Vive]

Who's the authority? I think that really depends.

I think anyone to be considered an authority on the Enneagram should at least have a decent amount of self-awareness and at least a proper foundational knowledge of what the Enneagram is and what the different types are.

The enneagram is only as good as it's ability to hold up to reality. The patterns described should be present in real people. The motivations and core themes should be consistent as described within people that are identified as a certain type. No matter the individual variations in upbringing, trauma's and other idiosyncrasies, the core motivations and themes should be consistent. If someone can describe the types and his/her descriptions or analyses of the types hold up with this sort of consistency then I think they at have some authority. This doesn't mean they are automatically an authority regarding the entirety of the Enneagram. It is more likely they are a proper authority on a few types that they grasp well.

In the end what I see as the best kind of authority is a person of a type, sufficiently aware of their weaknesses and strengths, they know well how their type functions, they live that type. I think it can be very enlightening to listen to what this person can tell us about their own type. They specifically can give you great advice on how to improve your awareness of your type's mechanism and how to utilize them well.

[Animal]

Who's the authority? I think that really depends.

I think anyone to be considered an authority on the Enneagram should at least have a decent amount of self-awareness and at least a proper foundational knowledge of what the Enneagram is and what the different types are.

The enneagram is only as good as it's ability to hold up to reality. The patterns described should be present in real people. The motivations and core themes should be consistent as described within people that are identified as a certain type. No matter the individual variations in upbringing, trauma's and other idiosyncrasies, the core motivations and themes should be consistent. If someone can describe the types and his/her descriptions or analyses of the types hold up with this sort of consistency then I think they at have some authority. This doesn't mean they are automatically an authority regarding the entirety of the Enneagram. It is more likely they are a proper authority on a few types that they grasp well.

In the end what I see as the best kind of authority is a person of a type, sufficiently aware of their weaknesses and strengths, they know well how their type functions, they live that type. I think it can be very enlightening to listen to what this person can tell us about their own type. They specifically can give you great advice on how to improve your awareness of your type's mechanism and how to utilize them well.

I agree so much. Of all the advice, "educational bits" or thoughts that I've offered over the years, I've been thanked the most for explaining image themes, especially 4. I will ALWAYS have more to learn, even about type four, since I'm only one person and I can't possibly know all the fours in the world; and I may not know enough fours to see trends that belong to the type instead of just the fours I know so far. But nonetheless, I am increasingly able to articulate my grasp on this type, over time. It was not automatic; I had to work hard to grasp what it meant even for me, even to type myself in the first place; let alone sit with the typing. But by now, I've developed some language around it which people have told me is helpful or educational for them. (Of course, I've also been written off by haters who think they are fours and I disagreed when they explicitly asked for my opinion - with the clause that I could always be wrong but this is what I think and why. But you know, what can you do.) Anyway.. I would not even come close to PRESUMING to offer this type of in depth advice about type 9 for example. I have studied enneagram 20 years, more consistently for 10 of them; and I've worked with a lot of people, but in some ways, I'm still grasping basics-- because it's such a complex system, and because "basics" have become so convoluted by bad teachers and forums full of mistypes. It took many years to cut the wheat from the chaff, and even still, I could miss something. Anyway, point being, if I described to you why you're a 9 and how it works in you according to my observation, and you told me "All of that is wrong," I'd laugh and ask you to please teach me, because I assume you understand it better than I do, based on what I've seen of you talking about it. However, with four, I've met people who challenge me and who know things I don't, but I have yet to meet someone whose view completely overturns my own.

[Full_fathom]

Who has the authority? Nobody. And everyone.

I can't critique any philosophy you've presented. Yes, R&H were the first to proliferate a living from it, Naranjo never meant for you to complete his ideas. The rest are fodder, simply.

The contemporary dilemma is such that.... like any pseudo-religion, no one can leave it alone. That is the egotistic nature of mankind itself. Man (and woman, sorry) is both his own benefactor and enemy, the human condition of assuming any additive work could not possibly be reductive. Only those post facto can know more. /sarcasm.

In a way, this is s root of religious war itself, the pure against reform. But ironically, I have no opinion. Somehow I assumed that the nature was best left to my empirical observation. It left me free to say whatever, while having no responsibility to a flock. You were (are) as having the same free-will as me. In this regard, the E has largely existed as a 'meritocracy'. but that does require a consensus, theoretically. What happens when the philosophy becomes hijacked by ego-ic self-identification, absent the depth that was originally sought?

[Full_fathom]

I can only conclude, the Enneagram has been found by ppl who are undeserving of its personal power. Thus, it becomes debased to suit the level of their particular idealism. It was in the cards, nothing is hidden anymore. All info is ripe for use or to be mis-used. Humanity no longer understands its point.

[Quindary]

I can only conclude, the Enneagram has been found by ppl who are undeserving of its personal power. Thus, it becomes debased to suit the level of their particular idealism. It was in the cards, nothing is hidden anymore. All info is ripe for use or to be mis-used. Humanity no longer understands its point.

If even one human does understand its point, the idea that humanity as a whole doesn't understand is technically broken. There are some around that do. I mean, that's part of the point of this forum, even - to share ideas and ultimately get to the heart of the E. And plenty of people here seem to get its point, at least on a self-improvement level - some arguably also on a symbolic or more "universal" level.

Anyway, I don't think the earliest founders of this system really had ill uses in mind for the system, either - they were just flawed people, like everyone else involved. But no human is perfect, else we'd have no reason to even delve into the E, or learn anything else through life. "Not understanding the point" of something like the E is one of the many flaws people are probably on this planet to overcome, so it makes sense that it'd figure into the problems people have surrounding the E.

As a side note, I have long disowned my own humanity because I didn't want to be connected to life and subject to the effect of others upon me. But I am starting to think it's time I own it as a vehicle to exercise my own power into the world. Humans are a life-sized analog to quantum particles, each doing their own thing and causing ripples among the rest, and even though the macro picture may look like a big overall phenomenon in the universe, the micro must be acknowledged for its part in creating, supporting, defying, or changing that picture. If I lend my own power through this forum, I stand with it and say I am helping us do something good with the E, making a better understanding of it accessible to people, I will be part of a force that overturns your stated view above by helping others see through the point, and promoting better use of the system and ideas.

[Full_fathom]

Quandry, you might've misunderstood me (or maybe not, who knows). Please don't take my possibly type-related dystopia as a commentary of this forum or its users, or various historical figures, being concise isn't exactly my forte. But myself, I am more-or-less having a 4th way disposition. My commentary is simply of the world I witness, even outside any Enneagram or other 'systems'. There are plenty of systems occurring and I'm capable of reacting to them too. But closer to home, I just say that it pains me how some people (now) use this system. The E.