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**[redacted]** · 04-10-2020, 05:26 PM

Still seems more 7 to me, like this song makes me think of a 7 who has gotten disenchanted after coming down from a high.

"Hunger hurts, but starving, it works, when it costs too much to love"

...Well, I don't know much about her/haven listened to her other than this and Criminal so I'd just wait for the full case, but song feels relatable in a way and doesn't really give me 5ish vibe.

**SpiritoftheGael** · 04-12-2020, 05:31 PM

Animal What I'm seeing in that song is the five absurd-ism, like she can't help laughing at herself and how petty her problems are.

"I thought it was a bird, but it was just a paper bag"

**Daeva** · 05-03-2020, 02:24 PM

Fiona Apple quotes, and why the 5 typing:

"You can live your whole life in your brain and not experience what's around you. You go crazy that way. That's why I have to watch myself when I get isolated for too long."

"I have a very steadfast tendency to parent myself, to monitor my development into the person I want to be. I try to keep the corruption minimal. And though I advocate learning from my mistakes as much as making mistakes, I also try and make sure my mistakes do not cost other people."
This is the super-ego in type 5.

"The way I feel about music is that there is no right and wrong; only true and false."

"I'm incredibly impressed by people who organize to achieve a goal, and believe that they can make a difference and then go ahead and do just that. I think it's incredible."

"If I respect myself and believe in what I'm doing, no one can touch me."

"Sometimes interviews are fun and good conversations, but stuff like photo shoots and appearances at places where you have to meet a lot of people - I was never really made for this kind of stuff."

"When you're surrounded by all these people, it can be even lonelier than when you're by yourself. You can be in a huge crowd, but if you don't feel like you can trust anybody or talk to anybody, you feel like you're really alone."

"Our ancestors always thought of the worst thing that could happen, and that's why we're alive."

"I feel like I'm 100 years old. I can't tell you what I did today. I can't tell you what I did for seven years. I can't tell you. It happens so seamlessly - I'm just floating along and seven years go by."
Lol 9 fix.

"But I honestly don't read critics. My dad reads absolutely everything ever written about me. He calls me up to read ecstatic reviews, but I always insist that I can't hear them. If you give value to the good reviews, you have to give value to the criticism."
Mental avarice. The lie is: If you don't give weight to outside influence, you will not be affected by them.

"In a sense it's a lot crazier when you're on the road and it's a lot less stable, but it's actually really healthy for me because it keeps me from isolating, which I tend to do a lot."

"Because for whatever reason, even though I want to stay home all the time and be left alone, I want to tell the world who I am now."

"You think you're looking at things all the time, but you're not looking at things, you're looking at what your brain is interpreting through light and color. And who knows what everybody else sees?"

"I don't go on lunch dates with friends. I hear about people having dinner parties, but I never do that. I'm not really human."

"When I was a kid - 10, 11, 12, 13 - the thing I wanted most in the world was a best friend. I wanted to be important to people; to have people that understood me. I wanted to just be close to somebody."
and
"I was told so many times when I was a kid, 'I can't be friends with you, you're too intense, you're too sad all the time.' I really thought that when I made the first album that everyone would understand me, all the people who weren't my friends would become my friends."
sound like Social instinct.

"I used to get a shiver if I thought about holding balloons, because I was scared of floating away."
5 + 9

"I really don't think anything I do is a mistake. It could be if I didn't learn from it."

**Animal** · 05-03-2020, 02:34 PM

She's just so amazing! And even here, there are clips of her being extremely anxious, with big poppy eyes, talking about how she can't "human."

**Animal** · 05-24-2020, 02:38 AM

After much ado between myself and Daeva (videos, pictures, writings etc)... we think 9 is a better type for her core.
952 tritype.

The "can't be human" stuff could still show up in a 9 core due to the tritype, but the fixation on wanting to be human would make more sense for a 9 lead than a 5.

I don't know where to start explaining this, because we spend so much time talking back and forth. I'll just use some examples. In this video she is 'languidly lounging' and doing things 'just because she can.' She doesn't know why she does it, she just does. But it's "bad." (Gut core judgment/ focus on justice.) She knows she's committing an injustice, slothfully, because she can. But she's just too lazy not to do it. Or even to understand why she's doing it.

Her voice is deep, sensual, gutty...

Her take on John Lennon's "across the universe" is a strong mix of 5 and 9...

Upon first few analyses, I thought this was 5ish but actually, the main theme is her 'tuning it out.' This is what she shows in the video.

Here, her identity just merges casually with the next guy. There's no boundary between her singing or him singing. And it's all just so very funny.

Also this song is a big saga-ramble.

Etc...

any protests? Thoughts?

**Animal** · 05-24-2020, 02:40 AM

SpiritoftheGael Whatuthink? Do you think 9 lead is ok and 952 tritype?

**[redacted]** · 05-28-2020, 08:00 AM

Criminal comes across as more intentionally devious to me, though she feels "guilty" about it. But she also seems excited by the prospect of being punished. It actually seems 6ish as they have a thing for punishment, going with fear+superego not wanting to get into trouble. Yet, at the same time...
Well, 9 has a line to 6 so perhaps there's a connection there. Still she seems more headish to me.

No comment on the other two songs though, other than that Across the Universe song is one of the worst things I've ever heard.

**[redacted]** · 07-04-2020, 05:17 AM

Not entirely sure how to interpret that "Not About Love" song but it doesn't really feel merge-y to me. It feels discordant. I think the reason he's acting like her ventriloquist doll is because this is an imagined conversation in her head. And I don't find 9 to be the only type who gets frustrated with discordance.

Although her music feels very "deflated" to me which is arguably 9ish but I'm not sure about that because I often hear that 9s can be drawn to more intense heavy music because it gives them a safe outlet for their anger.

Mainly there's all this frustration constantly oozing out from her. My first guess for her was type 4 but now that I understand "vibes" a bit more than I did back then she does seem quite heady-ish. But there's also all this frustration constantly oozing out from her. So then 7 seems like the type that would make sense for her because she seems like head+frustration. With 6-wing obviously. The lines to 1 and 5 also make sense.

**[redacted]** · 07-04-2020, 05:21 AM

Originally posted by Daeva View Post

"I have a very steadfast tendency to parent myself, to monitor my development into the person I want to be. I try to keep the corruption minimal. And though I advocate learning from my mistakes as much as making mistakes, I also try and make sure my mistakes do not cost other people."
This is the super-ego in type 5.

So it seems you have moved away from 5 by now, but I'm still wondering why specifically is that 5?

**[redacted]** · 07-04-2020, 05:58 AM

she

**Full_fathom** · 07-05-2020, 02:57 PM

Alien stills works with 9. I think of alien as a conceptual human experience taking on a number of flavors (experiences, etc). With 9 the implication is of a physical alienation (go figure), not so mental. As though, the clear-headed, sober acquiescence of moving away, staving off a mental insecurity...... that line to 6. This we know as a 9 hallmark itself, their peacemaking, so often conflated into actual peacemaking, when in fact it's just their inner peacemaking, now requiring hard dogma...... 'people suck' mantras, whatever. I know people just like this. Really smart, eccentric people, but nevertheless still essential 9.

I think I'm still friends with a counter-culture type 5 female, we don't talk much these days, but she was my lab partner all through college. She's an alien too, but we just can't overlap with very much, mentally. Her ideas are really alien to me, insofar as their being disconnected, unrealistic. Life should at least be realistic! I'd check in with her maybe once a year, having a soft spot for her, although she's never maintained much of a connection to me, accept for the one time she was fishing for an employment lead. Her gestalt was an impersonal nature, someone that you might like, but would never really emotionally invest much into in spite of having such a close working relationship over a long period. She's a good example of the type of person that could leave me feeling emotionally alienated.

**Full_fathom** · 07-07-2020, 07:04 PM

redacted, I was just being theoretical and I'm happy to see that you picked up on the withdrawn thing. It sorta ended up as an unintentional anecdote. Be that as it may, I agree with you that Ms. Apple is very relatable or projecting such, like the 6 with the NF and a pinch of Sx.

**Animal** · 07-12-2020, 05:02 PM

How would you guys feel about a 974 typing for her?

I understand what you're saying, [redacted]Full_fathom described his five friend.

She strikes me as a 9 core because she looks tired, she is 'droopy' in her posture, she describes herself as lazy quite often, and she seems to have a withdrawn core. I mistook it for five because I was thinking "head energy, plus withdrawn energy." But I'm wondering now, is it really head energy? Wouldn't a 974 in any order be very neurotic?

I had typed her as 479 tritype for many years, usually assuming she was 7 lead... but she just is not as aggressive as a 7 lead. She is not proactive either. She is terrified of people and has anxiety, but she is also traumatized. Her energy, however, is not sixish. There's no classic six lead 'defensiveness' or 'back and forth' or 'can I really trust you?' Sixes often squint and have boxy posture, like they're protecting their chest area and checking you out, sizing you up. She feels too... open. Emotionally available. Which of course, rules out 5. Pardon my past mistakes.

The four lead typing is popular for her, but where is the burning hot envy? It is common for 9 leads to show tremendous sadness in their eyes, to droop, to be very viscerally present in their emotions on the one hand, and sort of 'look tired' on the other. This fits Fiona. Her eyes are half closed, her posture is lazy and 'falls into' the world, she has great flow. Her voice 'falls into' the song. It isn't core reactive... she is just.. flowing.

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The 4-7 combination in the tritype could account for the frustration and the taste of envy that sometimes pops up in her songs, but it doesn't seem to be the driver. At core, she's more silly, and more embodied. There is no huge battle to express her identity, no "home" that she was cut off from, nor the hot reactive fire you get with some fours like Maria Callas. Fiona is part of the Earth, but she is a magic fairy creature. A 7 fix may feel like "a lot of head energy" even on someone who isn't a 7 lead. Partly she feels like she's exploding out of her skin (4-7 combo) but still, there's something wholesome about her. And.. relatable. (Not to me specifically, but in general, like redacted pointed out.)

I think 974 may be a good bet. How does that sound to you all?

**Full_fathom** · 07-12-2020, 06:56 PM

My primary issue with FA is her head type-ish nihilism. "I've been a bad, bad girl"? That's not an accident, it's a sardonic commentary. How superego. To wit, 4 is already post-modern bad, and 9 could never see it anyway.....

Let me know the way
Before there's hell to pay
Give me room to lay the law and let me go
I've got to make a play
To make my lover stay
So what would an angel say
The devil wants to know

That's a few 90-degree angles - it's got several 6 instincts at 'play'. Love possession (security), opportunity, guidance, authority, loyalties. God..... and um, the Devil?

I could be accused of cherry picking, but I don't know where else to go with it

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