Attraction & Lies about it in the Media

[Animal]

Protagonist: Average guy. A little nerdy, fun, nice, but nothing special. Likes computers and video games. Generally decent person but doofy. Alpha NT.

Love interest: Beautiful woman. Too good for him. Two personalities are possible here.
Story goes one of two ways:
_____

Now, allow me to decode this lie.

• 
  Most women are a mixture of both. We are biologically programmed to love, to enjoy sex and to procreate; and as a species we are programmed to think and develop our own interests.

[Eclipsed]

I cannot stress how true this post is. Expanding on it, I think a lot of people fall prey to almost "expecting" that certain archetypal hero journeys depicted in the media will happen to them, due to it being shoved down their throats since youth. Ultimately, this is dangerous and stunts their growth. I've had a number of friends who fell prey to the myth that one day they will find success, and rationalized it through their youth social stances, while they ultimately did nothing and stagnated, becoming frustrated with themselves and reality. The unspoken prevalence of this is in part how Elliot Rodger stories happen, the entire incel movement.

On the other hand, isfTay , remember the time I got off my PC, beat up the jocks, resisted the ISFP, and made you fall in love with me?

[isfTay]

How could I forget?! :]

[ledyanoy]

[Animal]

Alpha SF as an archetype is "motherly" - but Gamma SF is not. Of course, the reality is that anyone can be a wife and the stereotypes of what makes a woman or a wife are obscene, but ESFP defies them beyond measure. Se women are not wifey types, archetypically. At least NiTe can mostly keep their crazy under the ocean of their brilliant minds and then outburst in private. Se is what it is, right now, and does what it wants, right now. Classy men dare not take one of these women home, or reveal her existence to his coworkers. Who knows what she'll be wearing and what kind of offhanded intense remark might come spilling out of her mouth.

Se is shown to be some form of "badass" in descriptions going all the way back to Jung. ESFP is Socionics' Napoleon, MBTI's fun loving slut, Jung's unscrupulous pleasure seeker, and Auburn's erotic rebellious trickster. Obviously there are instances where individuals are different; for instance Auburn mentions that not all Se leads will embrace the erotic nature due to religion or personal values. But this type is not known in any system, any description or any depiction to be archetypically wife like. In movies it's the archetype of the badass bitch, the oversexed whore, the fun loving wild woman, etc. Overall, Se is not a pious, good, wifey archetype - it's more of a wild, eroticized, bright colored beast. Real Se leads may or may not embrace this lifestyle, but they will have this 'energy' to draw from.

Fi is another story. Firstly, Gamma Fi and Delta Fi are very different. Both have a princess or prince quality, like an elevated being stuck in a harsh world, who will obsessively spill out deep examination of themselves or those around them, often with a heavily intellectual streak. There's some pining secrecy here, and expression of some kind. However, Fi is also the archetype of the weirdo - the quirky artists, hipsters, striped hair, burning man (this brings out their Ne or Se), elite art circles, weird hair styles etc. Obviously this archetype is much more suited for a 'typical wife' than Se lead in the sense that it's still sweet or 'delicate' (in that Ji-like way) and can be taken care of. But with Gamma FiSe they have a feisty Se-Te rebel in their back pocket, and it will strike you straight in the gut if you stop them from their often bizarre quests to express or complete some huge ordeal that nobody understands except them. Basically, FiSe is the perfect 'Femme Fatale.'

[Animal]

"Mostly" and "speaking on an archetypal level." And I was talking about archetypical descriptions. You often say that in enneagram, some people are on the fringes of their 'archetype' and shouldn't use themselves as 'typical' examples of this type. I can't possibly elaborate on this post adequately at the moment, so for now the idea that you're on the rare end of your type will have to suffice... but I want to elaborate on this more at some point. I did mean something by it, just can't explain right now. So beat

[Animal]

But there is kind of a 'smoldering' quality. Which you have described in context with a connection to Sp/Sx. It's very hard to verbalize, because you do have a more theatrical personality than MOST people, of any type - but I still think theres a smoldering edge that matches the other NiTe and I probably just have to word this differently. But that's what I was trying to get at, I think. I wrote this a while ago.

[Animal]

I agree with you ledyanoy , that the scenario isn't necessarily false but it's not the only one. This is why it works in the way SpaceCadet has laid out. Guys like Eliot Rodgers see it happening in the media, and they see it happening around them too. Since it does happen to real people, and the media makes it sound like it happens to everyone, Eliot thinks: "Why doesn't it happen to me?" And then there's a school shooting.

For me, as a woman, I've never felt that I was so great and the guy has to work to be good enough for me. I always feel the opposite, that I'm incapable of expressing the parts of me that are truly beautiful, and if he saw those, he might fall deeply in love with me. But the parts he is able to see are ugly, plain, "slightly off," ungraceful etc. So I have to work hard to express myself to be worthy of someone as beautiful as him. And I am always fixated on an angelic beauty of a man, reaching for the sky. I have sometimes waited years before confessing feelings to someone so that in the meantime I could prepare an art piece - a whole novel, an album recorded etc - and give it to him so he could see that underneath, I'm special and beautiful and deserving of him, even if it doesn't look like it on the outside. I don't expect him to stoop to be with someone like me, but at least then he will know a piece of my heart.

I've always felt I had to chase... undercover, because otherwise I'd scare him away... and impress him with my feats, my art, my vision... but not in small pieces. I didn't want to 'explain' it to him, I wanted to finish it myself and give it to him so he can experience Erosia. So I really don't understand the idea of an average man working to seduce me while I shine on my pedestal, to good for him. The men I fall for are fallen Angels and I am their portal to the darkness within. I will show him the path back to his wings and watch him fly away.

[vermilionplum]

-hahahahaha ironic considering that many socionists describes alpha quadra to be the immature ones sleeping around and gamma to be the seriously monogamous "boomer".
-Mature ESFPs are the best moms lol
-God forbid that a NT girl exists on screen! Or a NF boy!

Funnily enough, my husband's mom and sister are alphas (both FeSi) and apparently they've both described the dark gamma temptress tempting the good alpha boi in regards to our relationship... as well as many people (including his alpha exes and friends) who are pretty much like:
"how the fuck does he like someone like you?", and then me who's like:
"BEGONE, THY FE THOTS. I WILL TAKE YOUR SOCIAL IDEALS AND RAISE YOU A SECONDHAND TOILET BOWL!"

If the purpose of fiction is to inspire the people of a society, then we shouldn't be surprised that crappy narratives are picked up along with virtuous ones.

[vermilionplum]

Yeah to be honest I have no idea what a 4 even is since apparently what's most regularly described as a 4 is actually a 9 ?_?
But definitely am pride over shame, and I thought that 4 being the "indiviualist" would be the prideful, not really envious one.

[vermilionplum]

https://archetribe.com/forum/typolog...tion-of-type-4 to give more of a context

And most enneagram descriptions floating around are Riso-Hudson's

[vermilionplum]

Have quite a few thoughts, probably will make an actual post about it

[BalalaikaBoy]

Ooo! Good topic
*SxIntensifies*

[BalalaikaBoy]

sort of. there are some things that are relatively universal: symmetrical features, health, youth (or at least not old), etc, but the degree of importance placed on each varies. personal preferences are an important consideration, but it's also important to remember that some women are attractive to 80%-90% of men and others to only maybe 5-10%. these preferences may be subjective, but they make a material difference in how one is treated, the chances of finding a life partner, how choosy one can be and even, in some circumstances, material wealth and physical safety.


but yeah, in many respects, what I'm attracted to is pretty different than what most other people are. "tall dark and handsome", "bad boy"....eww! give me rosy cheeks, mystical blue eyes, someone with a genuinely soft and innocent energy.

[Animal]

Exactly. I find the superhero guys in these movies supremely unattractive. You know who I think is obscenely hot? Adam Driver playing Kylo Ren. God damn. I know a lot of women find him super hot, because... well... he is. But his face isn't "hollywood perfect."