I'm not going to copy their arguments, but I'll paraphrase it. I'm not trying to make them sound stupid or put them down. They were actually cool in the end 
Just using the summary of their argument as a jumping off point so I can share my own thoughts on 8. I put many of my posts together at the end. I may consolidate this into a blog and explain it better, but the rough draft (hehe) is here for now. I still need to work on differentiating 8 CORE from how MY 8 works. But the general idea is, 8s can definitely manipulate knowingly to get power (they're not "just real" ), and not all of them are going around starting fights; some will even stay out of it to consolidate power. I think this depends on the tritype - for instance, 862 Soc/Sp vs 853 Sp/So are different beasts - but either way they'll be using their other 'fixes' for the sake of getting power as an 8.
_______
Someone:
I pick my battles. If I got caught up in every little battle, I would never move forward. I'd rather focus on my big-picture goals.
Me:
Yup, this is my take on it as an 8 fixer as well. 8s consolidate power which requires picking their battles. There's a line to 5, which reminds them to withhold involvement until something suits them. Why get all tangled up in pointless pursuits? Most of the time I let petty stuff go and laser-focus all my energy on the battles that matter most. Other people don't get to decide where I direct my attention.
8s have the biggest energy of all and need to expend it, so they may aggress just for the hell of it. But it's not so much "defending themselves" from petty things, as it is just expending energy for their own gain or enjoyment. (Lust.) . I don't jump into fights, and I find most of them petty and not worth my time - but other people experience me as an assertive or aggressive person because I take what I want without much thought. For instance we run out of water, I hail the waiter - even though I speak in a whisper (due to physical impairment) and the restaurant is busy. I'm not the most sociable person, but when I'm out in the world I'm assertive and direct, going straight for what I want without thinking about how others might respond or if I'm "too much." My husband and friends love to remind me that I'm anything from 'bold' to 'brazen,' or else I likely wouldn't notice and would just think, "What's the problem. I ran out of water."
Him:
If you act unphased at an aggressor, they'll lose interest in picking on you and move on.
Me:
This is basically how I live my life. As a kid I was pretty quick to jump in and defend others from aggressors, but when it came to myself, I knew ignoring them would clear my path faster. 8 is expansive - and I am bigger than that. That said, core 8 might want to jump in for fun more than I do. I have a 3 wing on my core type, so it makes me aware of the message I'm sending to others, such as "if you act unphased, they won't get the satisfaction..."
Someone:
Your stance is weak, because you're "acting" and it isn't honest. You should always fight to defend your dignity, and never let anyone get away with anything, etc.
Me:
Personally, when people say they jump into fights because people "gave them shit" etc, it sounds like they're letting others control their life and use them as marionette puppets. That's what your post sounds like to me. Whereas I have a will of my own, I'm here to do what I'm doing, and other people won't stop me.
If you stare at the enemy long enough you will become the enemy. I will become ME, nothing more , nothing less. Let them intimidate each other by saying "You're weak, you weakling, you won't fight.." yeah have fun in the pigpen. I'm a tiger not a pig. I'll fight for my food and defend my territory & family, my tribe, my vision, my goals, my morals. That's it. My destiny is up to me.
Them:
As a four you're projecting your fakeness onto others. 8s aren't aware of any act. Fours always project and try to get a reaction.
Me:
8s have a line to 2, and are very aware of how to manipulate for power. They also have a line to 5 and can be quite calculated. "Unawareness" is more the 9 realm. Although, in a different sense, all types are unaware which is why 9 crowns the enneagram.
However the bedrock of type four is a sense of special uniqueness and separateness. 9 crowns the enneagram, representing a connection to 'the all,' whereas four and five are furthest from that and live in self-perceived 'separate' worlds. So, fours don't tend to project their behavior onto others -- they assume that they are just inherently different from those people. That, of course, is the trap. That's why four's holy idea is "holy origin" - the realization that they are cut from the same cloth as everyone else. Unique, expressive and individualistic - but not truly 'separate.'
Projection is the primary defense mechanism of type six. You can read about this easily by googling 'basic enneagram defense mechanisms' and add words like 'projection' (six) 'rationalization' (seven) etc. Basic foundational stuff here. Very interesting too.
Re: fighting or not - let me put my stance more simply.
I am not fazed by bullshit. When I am "fazed" (more like, pissed off... no reason to water this down..) then people know it. Yes of course I would get pissed off by something like my family being attacked. I am not fazed by people's petty nonsense. For instance people 'get offended' about all kinds of things people say. I don't care for PC nitpicking. Real shit "fazes" me and I react accordingly, and whole-heartedly. It's not hard to understand.
A lesson in consolidating power, 8w9 style.
Getting 'fazed,' pissed off and bent out of shape over every little offense isn't power. That's the point I was making.
Everyone acts. You're doing it right now. The sooner you accept reality, and what it means to be human, the stronger you will become. In enneagram, the question is not if someone acts. It's how, and for what.
The idea that image types 'purposely' give off a false image - more than other types do - is false. First of all, everyone has an image fixation in their tritype. Secondly, 8 has a line to 2, 9 has a line to 3 and 1 has a line to 4. The whole gut triad is directly connected to some image type - which is another way to show that they cannot escape the "act."
Shame is animalistic. For instance, when cats are dying, they go off in the corner alone. Elephants who are sick leave the pack behind, out of shame- and this protects the herd. It allows the other elephants to keep up their pace, and it prevents them from getting sick.
If we had no shame, and nothing to hide, we would piss and shit in the street, pick our nose in public and yell out "I wanna fuck you right here!" whenever we saw a really hot person. (I'm not talking about ME or YOU specifically, I'm talking about humans at large.) But shame is an in-built mechanism to allow the species to survive. Since we have shame, we also develop habits that give us dignity. Such as using the bathroom privately, keeping our carnal desires with our lovers and not yelling them whenever we're turned on by some stranger... etc. People who don't follow these codes are locked away from society, which keeps society more sanitary and safe for everyone else. But those people might think , what's the problem? It's natural to hump someone who is hot and shit when I have to shit, no matter where I am.
So you see, the shame of 'being seen as crazy/ugly/disgusting/creepy' does run deep within all of us. It may not be on a conscious level.
There is no reason why 8s would be any exception to this. Therefore we have to acknowledge that 8s are also putting on some kind of persona, in order to be personable. They're not grabbing every crotch they want to, pissing in the street and punching passersby just for fun. Unless they're psychotic. And also, when an 8 is out with her friends, she might talk about desires or cruder topics, just as any type might. But when she's at work, she'll want to get paid so she'll show up in better clothes and act more appropriate. Everyone does this to some degree, unless they are outcasted, broke, or psychotic.
So if you think most people are putting out false images of themselves and you're not, you might want to look more closely at yourself.
All humans, one way or another, have to put on an act in order to survive and maintain dignity. The question is which one are you putting on? What is fake about you? Does it matter? This is a more productive and honest way at looking at so-called "fakeness," imo, than projecting it onto others.
I strongly disagree that there are "bad reasons" to keep your dignity. Your definition of dignity clearly differs from mine. For me, it's being true to yourself. And acting like them (or like you) isn't being true to myself. However, like I said many times, I defend my interests and my morals.
There's a big difference between vulnerability and voluntary weakness. I will defend people I see as "vulnerable" - but I do my best not to enable "voluntary weakness."
Just using the summary of their argument as a jumping off point so I can share my own thoughts on 8. I put many of my posts together at the end. I may consolidate this into a blog and explain it better, but the rough draft (hehe) is here for now. I still need to work on differentiating 8 CORE from how MY 8 works. But the general idea is, 8s can definitely manipulate knowingly to get power (they're not "just real" ), and not all of them are going around starting fights; some will even stay out of it to consolidate power. I think this depends on the tritype - for instance, 862 Soc/Sp vs 853 Sp/So are different beasts - but either way they'll be using their other 'fixes' for the sake of getting power as an 8._______
Someone:
I pick my battles. If I got caught up in every little battle, I would never move forward. I'd rather focus on my big-picture goals.
Me:
Yup, this is my take on it as an 8 fixer as well. 8s consolidate power which requires picking their battles. There's a line to 5, which reminds them to withhold involvement until something suits them. Why get all tangled up in pointless pursuits? Most of the time I let petty stuff go and laser-focus all my energy on the battles that matter most. Other people don't get to decide where I direct my attention.
8s have the biggest energy of all and need to expend it, so they may aggress just for the hell of it. But it's not so much "defending themselves" from petty things, as it is just expending energy for their own gain or enjoyment. (Lust.) . I don't jump into fights, and I find most of them petty and not worth my time - but other people experience me as an assertive or aggressive person because I take what I want without much thought. For instance we run out of water, I hail the waiter - even though I speak in a whisper (due to physical impairment) and the restaurant is busy. I'm not the most sociable person, but when I'm out in the world I'm assertive and direct, going straight for what I want without thinking about how others might respond or if I'm "too much." My husband and friends love to remind me that I'm anything from 'bold' to 'brazen,' or else I likely wouldn't notice and would just think, "What's the problem. I ran out of water."
Him:
If you act unphased at an aggressor, they'll lose interest in picking on you and move on.
Me:
This is basically how I live my life. As a kid I was pretty quick to jump in and defend others from aggressors, but when it came to myself, I knew ignoring them would clear my path faster. 8 is expansive - and I am bigger than that. That said, core 8 might want to jump in for fun more than I do. I have a 3 wing on my core type, so it makes me aware of the message I'm sending to others, such as "if you act unphased, they won't get the satisfaction..."
Someone:
Your stance is weak, because you're "acting" and it isn't honest. You should always fight to defend your dignity, and never let anyone get away with anything, etc.
Me:
Personally, when people say they jump into fights because people "gave them shit" etc, it sounds like they're letting others control their life and use them as marionette puppets. That's what your post sounds like to me. Whereas I have a will of my own, I'm here to do what I'm doing, and other people won't stop me.
If you stare at the enemy long enough you will become the enemy. I will become ME, nothing more , nothing less. Let them intimidate each other by saying "You're weak, you weakling, you won't fight.." yeah have fun in the pigpen. I'm a tiger not a pig. I'll fight for my food and defend my territory & family, my tribe, my vision, my goals, my morals. That's it. My destiny is up to me.
Them:
As a four you're projecting your fakeness onto others. 8s aren't aware of any act. Fours always project and try to get a reaction.
Me:
8s have a line to 2, and are very aware of how to manipulate for power. They also have a line to 5 and can be quite calculated. "Unawareness" is more the 9 realm. Although, in a different sense, all types are unaware which is why 9 crowns the enneagram.
However the bedrock of type four is a sense of special uniqueness and separateness. 9 crowns the enneagram, representing a connection to 'the all,' whereas four and five are furthest from that and live in self-perceived 'separate' worlds. So, fours don't tend to project their behavior onto others -- they assume that they are just inherently different from those people. That, of course, is the trap. That's why four's holy idea is "holy origin" - the realization that they are cut from the same cloth as everyone else. Unique, expressive and individualistic - but not truly 'separate.'
Projection is the primary defense mechanism of type six. You can read about this easily by googling 'basic enneagram defense mechanisms' and add words like 'projection' (six) 'rationalization' (seven) etc. Basic foundational stuff here. Very interesting too.
Re: fighting or not - let me put my stance more simply.
I am not fazed by bullshit. When I am "fazed" (more like, pissed off... no reason to water this down..) then people know it. Yes of course I would get pissed off by something like my family being attacked. I am not fazed by people's petty nonsense. For instance people 'get offended' about all kinds of things people say. I don't care for PC nitpicking. Real shit "fazes" me and I react accordingly, and whole-heartedly. It's not hard to understand.
A lesson in consolidating power, 8w9 style.
Getting 'fazed,' pissed off and bent out of shape over every little offense isn't power. That's the point I was making.
Everyone acts. You're doing it right now. The sooner you accept reality, and what it means to be human, the stronger you will become. In enneagram, the question is not if someone acts. It's how, and for what.
The idea that image types 'purposely' give off a false image - more than other types do - is false. First of all, everyone has an image fixation in their tritype. Secondly, 8 has a line to 2, 9 has a line to 3 and 1 has a line to 4. The whole gut triad is directly connected to some image type - which is another way to show that they cannot escape the "act."
Shame is animalistic. For instance, when cats are dying, they go off in the corner alone. Elephants who are sick leave the pack behind, out of shame- and this protects the herd. It allows the other elephants to keep up their pace, and it prevents them from getting sick.
If we had no shame, and nothing to hide, we would piss and shit in the street, pick our nose in public and yell out "I wanna fuck you right here!" whenever we saw a really hot person. (I'm not talking about ME or YOU specifically, I'm talking about humans at large.) But shame is an in-built mechanism to allow the species to survive. Since we have shame, we also develop habits that give us dignity. Such as using the bathroom privately, keeping our carnal desires with our lovers and not yelling them whenever we're turned on by some stranger... etc. People who don't follow these codes are locked away from society, which keeps society more sanitary and safe for everyone else. But those people might think , what's the problem? It's natural to hump someone who is hot and shit when I have to shit, no matter where I am.
So you see, the shame of 'being seen as crazy/ugly/disgusting/creepy' does run deep within all of us. It may not be on a conscious level.
There is no reason why 8s would be any exception to this. Therefore we have to acknowledge that 8s are also putting on some kind of persona, in order to be personable. They're not grabbing every crotch they want to, pissing in the street and punching passersby just for fun. Unless they're psychotic. And also, when an 8 is out with her friends, she might talk about desires or cruder topics, just as any type might. But when she's at work, she'll want to get paid so she'll show up in better clothes and act more appropriate. Everyone does this to some degree, unless they are outcasted, broke, or psychotic.
So if you think most people are putting out false images of themselves and you're not, you might want to look more closely at yourself.
All humans, one way or another, have to put on an act in order to survive and maintain dignity. The question is which one are you putting on? What is fake about you? Does it matter? This is a more productive and honest way at looking at so-called "fakeness," imo, than projecting it onto others.
I strongly disagree that there are "bad reasons" to keep your dignity. Your definition of dignity clearly differs from mine. For me, it's being true to yourself. And acting like them (or like you) isn't being true to myself. However, like I said many times, I defend my interests and my morals.
There's a big difference between vulnerability and voluntary weakness. I will defend people I see as "vulnerable" - but I do my best not to enable "voluntary weakness."
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