Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Ichazo Descriptions. Discuss!

Collapse
This is a sticky topic.
X
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    Ichazo Descriptions. Discuss!

    BEING GROUP: 8,9,1.

    Point 8 is known as “Ego-vengeance”. The fixation is also known as “Over-Justicemaker”.

    This ego derives from the Historical Ego, which is a response to the Conservation Instinct. The psychic poison of the Conservation Instinct at the root of Ego-Vengeance is Avarice.

    Ego-vengeance experiences a sense of abuse in the childhood relationship with a Mother figure.

    The main ego-characteristic of this fixation is Vengeance. The Passion which feeds this ego is Lust (Excess). The primary defense mechanism is Rationalization. Worsening of this fixation can lead to the Passive-Aggresive Personality Disorder. A secondary defense mechanism is Resistance. Further worsening leads to psychosomatic illness.

    Becoming fixated in the Domain of Laws and Morals, there is a swing to the dichotomies of that domain. This can manifest in a positive sense as a focus on Morality on one side, or Tolerance at the other side. It can manifest in a negative sense as Puritanism at one extreme or Hedonism at the other extreme. These dichotomies are represented by two characters: the Self-righteous character at one end, the Libertine at the other. A sense of Remorse invades the consciousness in this domain. The stress of being fixated and imbalanced in this domain can lead to Cruelty as a compensatory mechanism. The poison of this domain is Mythomania.

    The Trap which simultaneously restricts but potentially liberates this ego is its focus on Justice. The Way of self-realization of this ego is the Way of Redemption, which redeems the past.


    The Holy Idea which acts as a catalyzer for the transformation of this ego is Holy Truth, or Divine Truth. This can lead to the Virtue (energy) of Innocence.
    According to Ichazo, Divine Truth is “The awareness that the cosmos objectively exists now; that this existence is its own definition, and continues whether an individual understands it or not; and that the individual experiences the truth of Reality most completely when he views each moment fresh, without preconceptions about what should be happening.”

    *********

    Point 9 is known as “Ego-indolence”. The fixation is also known as “Over-Nonconformist”.

    This ego derives from the Historical Ego, which is a response to the Conservation Instinct. The psychic poison of the Conservation Instinct at the root of Ego-Indolence is Greed.

    Ego-indolence experiences a sense of abandonment in the childhood relationship with a Mother figure.

    The main ego-characteristic of this fixation is Disillusionment. The Passion which feeds this ego is Laziness (Sloth). The primary defense mechanism is Compensation. Worsening of this fixation can lead to the Avoidant/Dependent Personality Disorders. A secondary defense mechanism is Symbolization. Further worsening leads to psychosomatic illness.

    Becoming fixated in the Spiritual Domain, there is a swing to the dichotomies of that domain. This can manifest in a positive sense as a focus on Spirituality on one side, or Realism at the other side. It can manifest in a negative sense as Fanaticism at one extreme or Skepticism at the other extreme. These dichotomies are represented by two characters: the Believer at one end, the Doubter at the other. Prejudices invade the consciousness in this domain. The stress of being fixated and imbalanced in this domain can lead to Sensuality as a compensatory mechanism. The poisons of this domain are Ignorance, Arrogance and Stupidity.

    The Trap which simultaneously restricts but potentially liberates this ego is its focus on Seeking. The Way of self-realization of this ego is the Way of Self-Awareness, which is “immensely mystical” and which entails becoming aware of one’s “internal inner clarity”.

    The Holy Idea which acts as a catalyzer for the transformation of this ego is Holy Love/ Divine Love. This can lead to the Virtue (energy) of Action.


    According to Ichazo, Divine Love is “The awareness that though the laws which govern reality are objective, they are not cold, because these cosmic laws inevitably lead to the creation of organic life, and Life itself, like all natural phenomena, fulfills a cosmic purpose. As soon as the mind’s word mechanism is destroyed, love, the natural condition of the mind, appears. Love begins the moment man contemplates the Creation and says, ‘Thank you, God.’ All men feel this somewhat, no animal can feel this at all. Man alone can know that all comes from God.”

    *********

    Point 1 is known as “Ego-resentment”. The fixation is also known as “Over-Perfectionist”.

    This ego derives from the Historical Ego, which is a response to the Conservation Instinct. The psychic poison of the Conservation Instinct at the root of Ego-Resentment is Possessiveness.

    Ego-resentment experiences a sense of being unloved in the childhood relationship with a Mother figure.

    The main ego-characteristic of this fixation is Resentment. The Passion which feeds this ego is Anger. The primary defense mechanism is Isolation. Worsening of this fixation can lead to the Obsessive-Compulsive Personality Disorder. A secondary defense mechanism is Undoing. Further worsening leads to psychosomatic illness.

    Becoming fixated in the Domain of Sentiments, there is a swing to the dichotomies of that domain. This can manifest in a positive sense as a focus on Self-Control on one side, or Sensitivity at the other side. It can manifest in a negative sense as Callousness at one extreme or Touchiness at the other extreme. These dichotomies are represented by two characters: the Heartless character at one end, the Gushy character at the other. Jealousies invade the consciousness in this domain. The stress of being fixated and imbalanced in this domain can lead to Toximania as a compensatory mechanism. The poison of this domain is Anger.

    The Trap which simultaneously restricts but potentially liberates this ego is its focus on Perfection. The Way of self-realization of this ego is the Way of Attention, which works by recalling oneself in self-observation permanently.

    The Holy Idea which acts as a catalyzer for the transformation of this ego is Holy Perfection, or Divine Perfection. This can lead to the Virtue (energy) of Serenity.


    According to Ichazo, Divine Perfection is “The awareness that Reality is a process, moving with direction and purpose. Within this movement each moment is connected by the process with the one goal, and thus is perfect.”

    LIVING GROUP: 2,3,4.

    Point 2 is known as “Ego-flattery”. The fixation is also known as “Over-Independent”.

    This ego is derives from the Image Ego, which is a response to the Relation Instinct. The psychic poison of the Relation Instinct at the root of Ego-Flattery is Envy.

    Ego-Flattery experiences a sense of being controlled in the childhood relationship with a Father figure.

    The main ego-characteristic of this fixation is Vanity. The Passion which feeds this ego is Pride. The primary defense mechanism is Denial. Worsening of this fixation can lead to the Narcissistic Personality Disorder. A secondary defense mechanism is Repression. Further worsening leads to psychosomatic illness.

    Becoming fixated in the Domain of Health and Security, there is a swing to the dichotomies of that domain. This can manifest in a positive sense as a focus on Routine on one side, or Flexibility at the other side. It can manifest in a negative sense as Meticulousness at one extreme or Negligence at the other extreme. These dichotomies are represented by two characters: the Fussy character at one end, the Messy person at the other. Fears invade the consciousness in this domain. The stress of being fixated and imbalanced in this domain can lead to Psychosomatic Illness as a compensatory mechanism. The poison of this domain is Lechery.

    The Trap which simultaneously restricts but potentially liberates this ego is its focus on Freedom. The Way of self-realization of this ego is the Way of Liberty, also known as the Way of Security, which deals with the construction of our lives.

    The Holy Idea which acts as a catalyzer for the transformation of this ego is Holy Will, or Divine Will. This can lead to the Virtue (energy) of Humility.
    According to Ichazo, Divine Will is “The awareness that Reality, moving with direction and according to fixed natural laws, flows with a certain force. The easiest way to deal with this force is to move with it. This is true freedom.”


    *********

    Point 3 is known as “Ego-Go”. The fixation is also known as “Over-Efficient”.

    This ego derives from the Image Ego, which is a response to the Relation instinct. The psychic poison of the Relation Instinct at the root of Ego-Go is Hate.

    Ego-Go experiences a sense of being ignored in the childhood relationship with a Father figure.

    The main ego-characteristic of this fixation is Hyperactivity. The Passion which feeds this ego is Deceit. The primary defense mechanism is Identification. Worsening of this fixation can lead to the Histrionic Personality Disorder. A secondary defense mechanism is Compulsion. Further worsening leads to psychosomatic illness.

    Becoming fixated in the Domain of Creativity, there is a swing to the dichotomies of that domain. This can manifest in a positive sense as a focus on Know-how on one side, or Fantasy at the other side. It can manifest in a negative sense as Cunning at one extreme or Daydreaming at the other extreme. These dichotomies are represented by two characters: the Schemer character at one end, the Bullsh*tter at the other. Lies invade the consciousness in this domain. The stress of being fixated and imbalanced in this domain can lead to Over-exertion as a compensatory mechanism. The poison of this domain is Avarice.

    The Trap which simultaneously restricts but potentially liberates this ego is its focus on Efficiency. The Way of self-realization of this ego is the Way of Creativity, which goes with art.

    The Holy Idea which acts as a catalyzer for the transformation of this ego is Holy Harmony, or Divine Harmony. This can lead to the Virtue (energy) of Truthfulness.

    According to Ichazo, Divine Harmony is “The awareness that there are no exceptions to the natural laws which govern the Cosmos, and that these laws are completely objective, operating as an interconnected unity. The highest law is the totality of Reality itself. Certitude in the objectivity and the total applicability of those laws is true hope.”

    **********


    Point 4 is known as “Ego-Melancholy”. The fixation is also known as “Over-Reasoner”.

    This ego derives from the Image Ego, which is a response to the Relation Instinct. The psychic poison of the Relation Instinct at the root of Ego-Melancholy is Jealousy.

    Ego-Melancholy experiences a sense of being criticized in the childhood relationship with a Father figure.

    The main ego-characteristic of this fixation is Melancholia. The Passion which feeds this ego is Envy. The primary defense mechanism is Sublimation. Worsening of this fixation can lead to the Borderline Personality Disorder. A secondary defense mechanism is Reaction-formation. Further worsening leads to psychosomatic illness.

    Becoming fixated in the Intellectual Domain, there is a swing to the dichotomies of that domain. This can manifest in a positive sense as a focus on Reason on one side, or having an Overview at the other side. It can manifest in a negative sense as Sophistry at one extreme or Superficiality at the other extreme. These dichotomies are represented by two characters: the Argumentative character at one end, the Shallow character at the other. Envies invade the consciousness in this domain. The stress of being fixated and imbalanced in this domain can lead to Crime as a compensatory mechanism. The poison of this domain is Deception.

    The Trap which simultaneously restricts but potentially liberates this ego is its focus on Analysis. The Way of self-realization of this ego is the Way of Clarity, or the way of pure clear analysis.

    The Holy Idea which acts as a catalyzer for the transformation of this ego is Holy Origin, or Divine Origin. This can lead to the Virtue (energy) of Equanimity.

    According to Ichazo, Divine Origin is “The awareness that all individuals are born as the result of natural, objective laws; that these laws continue to operate within them throughout their lives. Because all the laws are interconnected, each individual always has an intimate physical connection with the Totality of Reality – the Cosmos. From this springs true originality.”

    DOING GROUP: 5,6,7.

    Point 5 is known as “Ego-Stinginess”. The fixation is also known as “Over-Observer”.


    This ego derives from the Practical Ego, which is a response to the Adaptation Instinct. The psychic poison of the Adaptation Instinct at the root of Ego-Stinge is Confusion.

    Ego-stinginess experiences a sense of Alienation in the childhood relationship with siblings and/or peers.

    The main ego-characteristic of this fixation is Withdrawal. The Passion which feeds this ego is Avarice. The primary defense mechanism is Introjection. Worsening of this fixation can lead to either the Schizoid or Anti-Social Personality Disorder. A secondary defense mechanism is Regression. Further worsening leads to psychosomatic illness.

    Becoming fixated in the Domain of Social Interaction, there is a swing to the dichotomies of that domain. This can manifest in a positive sense as Sociability on one side, or Privacy at the other side. It can manifest in a negative sense as Meddling at one extreme or Alienation at the other extreme. These dichotomies are represented by two characters: the Busybody at one end, the Loner at the other. A sense of Hatred invades the consciousness in this domain. The stress of being fixated and imbalanced in this domain can lead to Phobias as a compensatory mechanism. The poison of this domain is Envy.

    The Trap which simultaneously restricts but potentially liberates this ego is its focus on Observation. The Way of self-realization of this ego is the Way of Enchantment, which is how we relate magically with the world.

    The Holy Idea which acts as a catalyzer for the transformation of this ego is Holy Omniscience, or Divine Omniscience. This can lead to the Virtue (energy) of Detachment (Non-Attachment).

    According to Ichazo, Divine Omniscience is “The awareness that because every individual is intimately connected with the entire cosmos by the operation of objective laws within their own bodies, there is no separateness or alienation except as a mental hallucination. Because the cosmic laws govern every aspect of ourselves, there is no possibility of hiding from the Cosmos, or avoiding the results of natural processes. When we understand this, we are completely at peace with our past.”

    *********

    Point 6 is known as “Ego-Cowardice”. The fixation is also known as “Over-Adventurer”.


    This ego derives from the Practical Ego, which is a response to the Adaptation Instinct. The psychic poison of the Adaptation Instinct at the root of Ego-Cowardice is Deceit.

    Ego-Cowardice experiences a sense of being Useless in the childhood relationship with siblings and/or peers.

    The main ego-characteristic of this fixation is Insecurity. The Passion which feeds this ego is Fear. The primary defense mechanism is Projection. Worsening of this fixation can lead to Paranoid Personality Disorder. A secondary defense mechanism is Conversion. Further worsening leads to psychosomatic illness.

    Becoming fixated in the Domain of Work and Activities, there is a swing to the dichotomies of that domain. This can manifest in a positive sense as Labor on one side, or Amusement at the other side. It can manifest in a negative sense as Overwork at one extreme or Loafing at the other extreme. These dichotomies are represented by two characters: the Workhorse at one end, the Idler at the other. Worries invade the consciousness in this domain. The stress of being fixated and imbalanced in this domain can lead to Panic as a compensatory mechanism. The poison of this domain is Jealousy.

    The Trap which simultaneously restricts but potentially liberates this ego is its focus on Prudence. The Way of self-realization of this ego is the Way of Action, which is to realize that our actions must be internalized if they are to be real actions.

    The Holy Idea which acts as a catalyzer for the transformation of this ego is Holy Strength, or Divine Strength. This can lead to the Virtue (energy) of Courage.

    According to Ichazo, Divine Strength is “The awareness that the Cosmos is a self-regulating mechanism, existing in a state of balance, and as long as the objective laws which govern this balance are respected, an individual can exist in a state of harmony with Reality, moving toward his own personal fulfillment. Faith is a Holy Idea, not a belief. It is the certitude that each of us has an Essence and that this Essence coming from God, belongs to God.”

    *********

    Point 7 is known as “Ego-Planning”. The fixation is also known as “Over-Idealist”.

    This ego derives from the Practical Ego, which is a response to the Adaptation Instinct. The psychic


    poison of the Adaptation Instinct at the root of Ego-Planning is Mythomania.

    Ego-Planning experiences a sense of being Inferiorized in the childhood relationship with siblings and/or peers.

    The main ego-characteristic of this fixation is Dreaming. The Passion which feeds this ego is Gluttony. The primary defense mechanism is Displacement. Worsening of this fixation can lead to Schizotypal Personality Disorder. A secondary defense mechanism is Disassociation. Further worsening leads to psychosomatic illness.

    Becoming fixated in the Domain of Position and Authority, there is a swing to the dichotomies of that domain. This can manifest in a positive sense as Self-Respect on one side, or Modesty at the other side. It can manifest in a negative sense as Superiority at one extreme or Inferiority at the other extreme. These dichotomies are represented by two characters: the Pretentious character at one end, the Loser at the other. Rivalries invade the consciousness in this domain. The stress of being fixated and imbalanced in this domain can lead to Gluttony as a compensatory mechanism. The poison of this domain is Confusion of thought.

    The Trap which simultaneously restricts but potentially liberates this ego is its focus on Idealism. The Way of self-realization of this ego is the Way of Presence, continuously being aware of the Presence of the Eternal.

    The Holy Idea which acts as a catalyzer for the transformation of this ego is Holy Wisdom or Divine Wisdom (sometimes described as Holy Work). This can lead to the Virtue (energy) of Sobriety.

    According to Ichazo, Divine Wisdom (or Work) is “The awareness that Reality exists as a succession of moments, each experienced as ‘the present,’ and that it is only by existing in the present that the constant unfolding of the Cosmos [can] be experienced. Only by working in the present can real work be done and real results achieved.”

    #2
    A little confusing, for example what is this thing about 4 supposed to mean?
    "The poison of this domain is Deception."

    And why is 3 Histrionic and 2 Narcissistic, should it not be the other way around?
    Why is the poison of 6 jealousy?

    Have these kinds of questions for every type, like suddenly there's some words that are normally always associated with some other type.
    It's like, it makes sense until it completely stops making sense
    Maybe I'm misunderstanding the wording.

    Comment


      #3
      Originally posted by moonlight View Post
      A little confusing, for example what is this thing about 4 supposed to mean?
      "The poison of this domain is Deception."

      And why is 3 Histrionic and 2 Narcissistic, should it not be the other way around?
      Why is the poison of 6 jealousy?

      Have these kinds of questions for every type, like suddenly there's some words that are normally always associated with some other type.
      It's like, it makes sense until it completely stops making sense
      Maybe I'm misunderstanding the wording.
      The descriptions are too packed with psychological words to work on their own. More elaboration was needed. Ichazo wasn't ready to show this to the public.
      However it is worth noting that this is why I loathe, detest and despise RH. They contributed some good ideas to the field like health levels & organization of triads (I'm not sure to what degree triads were theirs originally), but overall , their descriptions are the popularized ones, and they leave out the meat of the types completely. Naranjo followed Ichazo, and his descriptions have a lot of meat and excellent ideas too, but he really butchered and neutered type 9. So then RH came in, glorifying 4 and 5. Don Riso is an obvious 9 who mistyped at 4, and in order to make this fit, they stripped away the sins from the types. So their caricatures became popular online, completely missing what the types are actually about.

      For instance, this is a lot closer to Naranjo's 2 descriptions, than any of that neutered faceless caretaker RH 2 stuff.

      This can manifest in a positive sense as a focus on Routine on one side, or Flexibility at the other side. It can manifest in a negative sense as Meticulousness at one extreme or Negligence at the other extreme. These dichotomies are represented by two characters: the Fussy character at one end, the Messy person at the other.
      I find this extremely helpful and correct. 2s are fussy! And yet they also can be messy and libertine. There are dichotomies around freedom. Also I love how he calls 2 "over-independent." 2s are love-cravey and love-needy, but they are not 'dependent' on another, at least consciously. 2 is willful and sees themself as "having no needs." So they can be overly needy in "I need your love," like a hunger that can't be filled; but they don't need you to do their laundry. In fact they are more likely to do YOUR laundry.

      Comment


      • Princess of Hearts
        Princess of Hearts commented
        Editing a comment
        Oh ok that makes sense, it does sound kinda raw and unfinished, like he he just put some core concepts on paper as he sees them without bothering too much with how the wording could be interpreted by someone with less knowledge. Since I read some of Naranjo's work I can kinda assume what's supposed to be written between the lines, but some of the words are still confusing.
        But I agree that there is a lot that's spot on and has 'meat'.
        RH is...I don't know how people even accept those kinds of descriptions?

      • Animal
        Animal commented
        Editing a comment
        @princess of hearts
        Sorry, I just saw this comment, hadn't seen it before. I agree that the descriptions look raw and unfinished, but Ichazo was involved with the Arica school - where Naranjo studied. I have to do more reading to understand the exact relationship between Ichazo and Naranjo and Gurdjieff (the founder) - but I know taht there was a direct relationship there. RH has no direct relationship that I'm aware of and also their descriptions bear little resemblance to the true core principles of the types as they were being explored by their predecessors.

      #4
      Princess of Hearts
      Here, I delved into some of my ideas about Ichazo & four, which have evolved in conjunction with ideas about other texts and my experience in communities, as well as self work. I hope this is helpful to see how Ichazo can be interpreted. I'll be writing up a lot more about this over time, cross referencing with other writers etc, but this is my initial attempt to delve into this in public. The thread I linked also contains a critique of RH's approach to four and shows that many of their exemplars are mistyped by our estimation.

      https://archetribe.com/forum/typolog...=9421#post9421

      Comment


        #5
        I’ve read Ichazo and it’s totally brutal. 7 is really dead on... pinpoint my fears, my coping mechanism of displacement and disassociation. Correct about family relations. Born as the youngest but became the only child default due to older brother’s death. I held my brother when he was dying, when he took his last breath. My mom loved him more than me, she always said so, that the sweet loving child died and the demonic one lives (her words). Learned to be self-sufficient during formative years, but always deeply craved closeness with others, wanting to be involved and at the same time, can’t bring myself to because of fear losing self-sufficiency. It’s very easy for me to be alienated and it’s hard for me to break the cycle of displacement and disassociation, because on one had, I want to be involved but on the other hand, I feel really fake and out of place if I sense that I’m getting too involved/in too deep. I am modest and I’m being genuine with modesty because I tend to not give credit to myself and want to remain in the shadows but even in my modesty I flex my superiority over others and enjoy my superiority over others. The most common criticism that people often give me, both from strangers and those who know me for many years is that I’m condescending and make others feel like they can’t ever be right. The criticism isn’t in my content, it’s in the manner that I address others that they claim that I’m being condescending. In my mind, I don’t think I’m condescending at all, just pointing out what others have missed or failed to take notice.

        And as a teenager and early 20s, I was plagued with psychosomatic illnesses. I swore something was physically wrong with me but doctors told me there wasn’t and it was all in my mind. So much so... I’ve caused myself strange anxieties that for a few years in my late teens (17 to19), I took combos of pills that further pushed me to the edge. After 2 failed suicide attempts I gave up and threw away the pills. Worked on facing what I hated about society and people in the most stark, sober way. At 23, I relapsed for a few months back to pills because I had PTSD from a mugging/assault incident. Kicked it by joining volunteer groups (bike coalitions and cat shelters) and long distance cycling groups. I got to be involved as much or as little as I wanted without feeling pressured. These days... I don’t feel socially pressured anymore... but deep down I’m still the same- I want to be involved but know I can’t be unless I set aside my contempt for people’s stupidity. That’s a constant struggle. My longing and mistrust of others. It’s awful being social 7.

        Comment


          #6
          I learned a lot from Ichazo and other Enneagram teachers. From my opinion he was one of a key person which developed Enneagram to the level where is today. Unfortunately he passed away last year in March 2020 From him on other teachers brought Enneagram to USA and to the rest of the world. The most influent people are Claudio Naranjo, Don Riso, Russ Hudson etc.. However you can read post on blog bellow to learn more about the origin and history of the Enneagram System.
          The Enneagram of Personality is a system that categorizes and maps out 9 personality types. There is still much mystery surrounding Enneagram origins.

          Comment


            #7
            Hm, I haven't given them a really long look so I can't give a philosophical read but from a typing perspective they feel a bit...Barnum Effectish. Like reading the 2 description to see if it fits and I go 'oh right that's so me, sometimes I'm meticulous but I can also be negligent!' but surely almost anyone can say that. How is it 2-specific (same with the other things in other types, surely most people can be either of the extremes but when does that mean something type-related?

            Haven't come across the 'Domain of...' thing before, what is the theory behind that?

            Comment


              #8
              damn...8 really fits well.

              Comment


                #9
                Since we're looking at 2 and 7 for me, and these descriptions are short, I wanted to go through them and describe how I do/don't relate! I know they're very rough/ incomplete and not equally good across the board but wanted to do this as a thought exercise anyway ^^

                2

                "Over-independent" - I feel like I'm actually overly dependent in a lot of ways 😅 but it's actually kind of opposite of what you said above. I don't feel needy for love but I DO kinda need someone to do my laundry aha... I did actually go through a period though where, after friends moving away so many times, I was like okay fine I'm not even going to bother making friends who needs friends I can do fine on my own! about four months into this i was so depressed i was fantasizing about running away every day so I gave in and made some friends

                I'm not sure about vanity? I kind of play into vanity in a funny/indulgent way but I don't think I'm actually vain.
                ✅ pride
                ✅ denial

                unsure about routine & flexibility as a dichotomy for me but maybe... I definitely have some routines and I've mentioned before that "following the rules perfectly" is kind of a fun exercise for me so I wikihow the most ridiculous shit like "how to take a shower" once in a while. i dunno about flexibility.

                meticulousnesss & negligence - yes to both. when i set my mind to something I'm extremely meticulous in how I go about it (as you've witnessed erica with the kitten debacle lol) or I just. Do not care. At all. I never half ass anything, it's whole ass or nada!

                fussy & messy - yes to both lol, fussy in the way I just described but I let things fall to the wayside too especially if I get overwhelmed.

                Unsure I relate to holy freedom. I feel like a lot of type 7 "holy plan" descriptions are actually describing holy freedom ideas and that's actually why I don't relate as much to them. I'm not sure... I do feel compelled to intervene a lot but I guess I also often think it'll work itself out eventually even without my input. I dunno.

                It's probably worth mentioning this is a learned adjustment of attitude but I think the time where I did feel my specific intervention was necessary was a special case bc of abuse. When I was 14, my first abusive friend was severely depressed, would constantly ask me for advice, and told me multiple times that I'm her only friend, pressured me not to leave, and all but said she'd commit suicide without my help. I tried to pull in other resources so I really didn't think I could do it all on my own - called helplines for advice, tried to get in touch with her mom, researched coping strategies and stuff for her. It was a very scary relationship, it felt like her life was in my hands, but I don't know if that's because it was a natural inclination of mine to feel that way or because she worked very hard to put the idea in my head. We didn't get that close until almost two years after we first met; I was in another country at that point and didn't have any intimate friendships in the place I moved to. She tore apart the group I left behind that I had taken so much time to bring together, and I was honestly really angry at her, but she manipulated me into thinking that my other friends had stigmatized her because of mental illness. It was a long time before we were close enough and that I was removed enough from the situation to believe her when she said I was the only person she had. My attitude adjustment happened in response to this situation - after she was out of my life I made a hard shift to believing that nobody's life is in my hands, becoming averse to anyone saying I'm their only friend to the point where I would instantly cut someone off if they said this to me (its no longer a trigger phrase but I still avoid this), and, through seeing how her situation and the situations of others I cut off developed after I left them, decided that people will get along just fine without me and my presence is never a necessary condition for anyone's wellbeing. I don't know if this means that I got some kind of grasp on the holy idea fairly early or what, but my entire relationship with it can basically be characterized by this single relationship, because it was the first and last time this ever happened.

                7

                "over-idealist" ya

                ✅ dreaming
                ✅ gluttony
                unsure what displacement means but ✅ dissociation

                ? on self-respect and modesty as a dichotomy for me. I do have a lot of self-respect and confidence, but I'm also nervous and hesitant. Don't know if that's a modesty thing lol.

                superiority & inferiority - I don't really notice other people enough to feel inferior? but I guess in terms of how well I think I can do something I do vascillate a bit between being like "I could do better easily!" and "I am the absolute worst person you could ever ask to do this" 😅 when superiority and inferiority are relevant to me it's usually competency-related.

                pretentious & loser - RUDE!!! not really wrong though 😅 I'm pretty pretentious but I also struggle with feeling like I have no life and am boring aha... actually that's probably one of my biggest dichotomies, I feel like I'm the most interesting person in the world most of the time but I also worry that I'm boring/my life is boring 😅

                I relate to holy wisdom much more than holy plan and honestly at this point, even though holy perfection was the most beautiful of the holy ideas to me at one point, holy wisdom is the one I relate to the most. I struggle so much with staying and doing the work in the present. I'm always trying to jump past the pain straight to the moral of the story - the wisdom - the future where it all makes sense.
                Last edited by inkreservoir; 12-14-2021, 10:46 AM.

                Comment

                Working...
                X