Arya I wrote out a bunch of comments in the post above. I think you may be right.
I'll organize them into a comment.
I'll organize them into a comment.
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From the comments;
Arya just suggested maybe 9w8. Actually I think that might explain what Robin Jayne Goldsmith and I are both seeing. I'll write another post or she can. She makes an excellent point that an 8 core wouldn't hide the relationship. Actually last night this is what Daeva and I were talking about. I told him I relate to Annikin having so many nightmares about losing her that he 'acts out,' essentially; but what I don't relate to whatsoever is his decision to hide the relationship to preserve their careers. I simply would not do it and wouldnt' agree to it even if it meant I couldn't be with the person. Daeva said the same. Neither of us is ok to live in hiding =nor can imagine ourselves doing it.
The actor is 9ish and 3ish, and perhaps thee character is 9w8 thus he hid things rather than losing the connection. The 8 came out more in the wing, one of those very 8ish 9w8(8w7)s. This means I need to rethink the fixes too.
He could not be triple reactive and also agree to live in hiding. This might even rule out reactive core. I mean, archetypically.
I told Daeva before we watched that the love scenes were robo-9 because of the actor. But Daeva had the sense that they selected the actor decently and it didn't take him out of the movie. (Nor me really.) So maybe it's not just that, and 9w8(8w7) resolves it, but then he would have to have other aggressive fixes. 9 in itself could explain the withdrawnness and "sloppiness" in which case I guess he could have a 3w4 fix. But really I need to think hard about that one.
I really feel 6w7(7w8) is right for his head fix.
Hm maybe he's one of those triple attachments who plays really heavily on the wings. Just to put it out there, Daeva and I had talked about this last night quite a bit and another thing I didn't relate to with the character is the way he acts with the counsel. He is so impatient to have his abilities recognized and rewarded. I don't really think about that much at all and if I do, it's more about biding my time. In many ways I told Daeva I related more to the Emporer in actually acting LESS powerful than I am, and acting liek I know LESS than I do, in some cases, to consolidate control. I saw a lack of 5 in him essentially, and I was yapping about it for a while. Come to think of it, if he were 8 core, then even with the line to 5 he would still have a lot of 5. If he's 9w8-6w7(7w8)- something else... he would not have much access to 5.Comment
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Animal Anakin is perfect symbolism for the movie. He is the bridge between light and dark trying to form a perfect union, but instead becomes overcome with his shadow and rage and loses everything or thinks he did. Once he had nothing left to lose, there was no reason to come back. But that's not true because his children are still out there and Luke helps redeem him at the end
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As you said in private - Archetypically, he is "The One" who balances the force, dark and light. I don't know though. If he is a 9w8(8w7) lead I'm getting on board with this (I need to sit with it all though!) and I still see 6w7(7w8). But, I have trouble unseeing the 4w3(3w2) ... though I'm willing to.
In terms of relating, I really can't type that way unless the relation goes deep. For example I relate to Jared Leto in some ways, who is 3w4(2w3) and 9w8(1w9).. but we share Sp/Sx. (His head fix is still in discussion I think.) Attachment types have a way of making it "relatable," and he expresses a lot of themes of the wings too, on top of just HUMAN themes. But that said.. I don't relate to him even close to the level of, say, Phantom of the Opera, or Trent, who have both 4 and 5 in the tritype. It's more that I'm tapping into the human themes, and that Anikin has enough 4, be it in fix or wing, and enough 8, be it fix or wing, for me to relate on a human level --- and also, he's explicitly SeFi with developed Te.
So that's not why I'm seeing 4.... per se. It's just, in Kylo Ren the 649 tritype is clear to everyone, and how different are they really? They also both look like all those 469 dark brooding conflicted rockstars, yknow? What makes them stand out compared to the other Jedi (and why they end up switching from the very "black and white" Jedi establishment) is because they identify with their inner passion.. there's interiorized image and shame that they just can't let go of no matter what the Jedi Order says. Fours find catharsis by dancing with the demons, not denying them.
Anikin DOES have the feeling that he's spending his whole life in mourning, obsessing over who and what he can't have.Comment
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Animal Robin Jayne Goldsmith Here's a clip from the movie. This is the central theme that leads to his demise. He is utterly terrified of loss and will do anything to stop it, but also spends his time hiding everything from the Jedi which leads to his fugue rage state.
The day is done, and the darkness
Falls from the wings of Night,
As a feather is wafted downward
From an eagle in his flight.
I see the lights of the village
Gleam through the rain and the mist,
And a feeling of sadness comes o'er me
That my soul cannot resist:
A feeling of sadness and longing,
That is not akin to pain,
And resembles sorrow only
As the mist resembles the rain.Comment
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He states that he obsessed over Padme every day of his life since he was a kid - for ten years when he didn't see her. When they first met he was about 8 years old, and she was essentially an adult, a QUEEN! And he obsessed over her, longing and longing and longing. Dreaming and yearning and SUFFERING over it. I can't think of a good reason why this isn't four fix..... with very heavy 3 in the wing. And then he spends the life mourning his mother's eventual loss, etc.Comment
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Animal I see how Yoda specifically is very nineish and has the potential for healthy nine for sure. But regardless those 9w1s who say that are idiots and I completely disagree with them -
Yah. I'm glad you see what I saw. At times he does seem like a core 4, I agree, I just didn't type him as core four because I knew the larger themes weren't core 4. But I'm very particular about that. I do think that if I'd seen just this scene or that (depending on the scene) I would maybe have assumed four lead.
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Unfortunately I'm not sure where the character ends and actor begins. Probably I should read the early books. Because I'm sure the actor has no four. In the case of Kylo Ren, the actor and the character both may be 694.Comment
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The problem here with 9 - that I see - is that the prophesy was about the "One who would balance yadadada..." Yet, he doesn't. He does not balance anything. He is a misfit for the role from the beginning: an agent of chaos . His emotional turmoil is the reason that the counsel never put their trust in him. He *fails* to balance, fails at 9, and is stuck between loyalties and emotional drama... making more of a case for 6 than 9 if Attachment is to be the core issue.
I personally don't see the split in his character and I don't interpret his rage to be in a fugue state. I interpreted it as a conscious choice he made.
edit: Another point in favor of 6 is that our types often lead others to react to us and reflect back our own emotional biases. For example, people often get competitive with 3's, feel judged/judgmental around 1's, etc. A great amount of the reactions he receives are of distrust, of people not being sure of Anakin's loyalties.Last edited by Daeva; 12-31-2019, 05:38 PM.Comment
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Daeva I could see an argument for six also. I often see this behavior in sixes where they create their own worst nightmares
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When it comes to the explosions of rage between types 9 and 6.. The 9 "goes postal," the colleagues are surprised, wondering why "they never saw it coming, not from him." The 6 shoots up the class because he is the broody kid whose father beats him and his mom and he recently got into a gang... There is overlap, but these live in different emotional zones ultimately. Between the two, which one is "Ani" closer to..?Comment
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Daeva I think I'll have to rewatch to make the call between 6 vs 9
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Yeah, maybe my old typing of him , as 6w7, was better than I thought. I mean this was years ago! But now that i'm remembering my reasoning- I started with 8 due to the obvious power hunger. Keep in mind I really didn't know much, probably not even my own type (I may have been typing at 5 then?) . But this was along the lines of my own reasoning -- that he was conflicted between two sides (ambivalent), had daddy issues... issues around being recognized for his accomplishments and rewarded.... and showed tremendous courage at the most unexpected times as well as tremendous cowardice. The attachment stuff around father figures telling him what to do is a big issue - his name is DARTH VADER - Daeva told me that Vader means father in Dutch.
Arya Robin Jayne GoldsmithComment
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tbh, most of what you're saying here sounds, again, like a 2. he never had a real father to bond with, and the jedi council was full of cold, unhealthy examples of So/Sp. "if I perform well, they'll love me" coupled with core pride fixation "I'm the best". -
You're describing a 3, BalalaikaBoy. Those things aren't 2. And I don't see him in the light of performing for love: I disagree with that character assessment.
If you really think that most of what was said here sounds like type 2, then I've got some bad news for you...
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Well at least now I feel less stupid having typed him at 6w7 for several years. The reason Daeva and I jumped on 8 was the way the kid is portrayed.. so impulsive etc, not much inner conflict, back and forth etc... but now that I think about it 6w7 actually works better. With all his nerdy stuff . about building and fixing things. He actually speaks about this in a similar way to the IRL Sx 649 I have talked about quite a bit... who once had a Rubix cube and a very sad, conflicted look on his face and when asked what he's doing with it, he said, "Rubix cubes are less complicated than people..."
Reminds me of the scene where Anikin's mom dies and he says all sadly "I like fixing things..." in a similar context.Comment
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This was the pic I put up earlier, but I had posted it as a link. Here it isComment
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I'm telling you I'm sick right now and mixing things up and can't thinK! ugh. >.< Robin Jayne Goldsmith I gave you the wrong episode name, it's Episode 3 revenge of the sith. Sorry. We watched them both one after the other >.<
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I will say this though, type aside....Anakin is extremely relatable. Sure, he's SEE and I'm ILI, so he's a lot more physically bad ass than me, while I'm more rational and patient, but his style of romance is so similar to mine, the way he's filled with stormy passion, vengeance, but also a tenderness. Sure, he was kind of immature at times (he's 10 in the first one and 20 in the second. dafuq do people expect?), but his struggles were real, and it's very easy to see how he went to the dark side when so few people made any attempt to understand or help him even after the countless victories he won for them during the Clone Wars.
People talk about how he's "over-acted" and whiny, but honestly....are you telling me you wouldn't be fucking dramatic if a bunch of aliens kidnapped and tortured your mother as she died in your arms? I would have slaughtered all those sons of bitches. I don't care what your type is, watching your mother's last breath as she is tortured to death would really fuck with anyone.Comment
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Robin Jayne Goldsmith
6's can be extremely heroic and courageous (they're more courageous than I am tbh. I don't feel fear much, but when I do, I don't usually face it hahaha), but that heroism stems from overcoming fear about something happening to them, from overcoming insecurities about their own shortcomings.
Anakin has a natural feeling of invulnerability that doesn't work with core 6. it works with 8s, and it works with 2s (lust and pride), but not 6.Comment
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If there are issues with the 6 typing for him, this wouldn't be one of them. You said earlier that "6s are afraid primarily for THEMSELVES." This is false. It is a fear of fear, that is what makes 6, and a great many type 6's do not consciously feel this fear. I suppose you can read "a natural feeling of invulnerability" in that if you were so inclined. -
Yeah his interpersonal vulnerability is obvious. We only considered 8 given the caveat that he would be Sx and 4 & 6 fixed, but still it's too much.
Watching episode 4 again, which is the original
star wars, Han Solo is a good example of 8 leading. I used to type him as 7w8 but I am pretty confident now it's 8 - he behaves similarly to Rhett Butler in many ways - He doesnt need anyone, calls himself a scoundrel, has a similar "insults vs love" relationship with Leia. Strong 6w5 fix though, and Sp/Sx. Harrison Ford himself may be a 9w8 but he plays it well.
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Watched episode 4 for the first time in decades!
Han Solo 8w7 with 3w4 and 6w5 fixes. sp/sx
Leia 6w7 with 1w2 fix
Luke 7w6 with 9w1Comment
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Darth Vader even as an adult - still 6w7. His whole schtick is "faith in the force."Comment
damn
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