Skeptical of Instinct theory

[Animal]

Just saw your last comment. "Hmmm" . hehe. I like this train of thought.

[SpiritoftheGael]

Animal yeah I agree that instincts seem like more where your libido is aimed and that both are instincts.

[Animal]

And it still wouldn't explain why some Sp's love to take risks, some Sx are asexual and don't have kids; and some Soc's are uncooperative or even just hermits.

[SpiritoftheGael]

Animal it would be really interesting the see the three triads as the death instinct. I guess when trapped under ego that's what it becomes as you slide further down in health. Hmm...

[Animal]

So then we could postulate that instincts are "where your libido is aimed" while types are "defense patterns to help you survive" -- which actually means types are equally 'instincts...'

[Animal]

Oh interesting! I see it!

[SpiritoftheGael]

Yeah I agree that David Gray hasn't necessarily done the best job here.

[Animal]

But that aside, I think what Daeva is getting at, is..... are these really related to 'instincts' in the first place?

[Animal]

His fetish-death stuff for Sp/Sx annoys me so much. My own type aside, so many Sp/Sx's are closer to "hunter/ lone warrior" archetypes. Very few would relate to this... definitely not roughly 1/6th of the world.

[SpiritoftheGael]

Animal I'm wondering if you can also correlate what he has under the death instinct as the three centers? Agression is the gut triad, risky behavior as the head triad, and reliving trauma as the heart center?? Maybe?

[Daeva]

Indeed they do, and we already have 9 such roles in the Enneagram. So are these subsets of these 9 roles, or are they separate? If they are separate, what are they then, what is their foundation?

[Animal]

I don't know what this might mean but just figured I'd put it there for thought.

[SpiritoftheGael]

Daeva If I were to argue in David Gray's defense I would suggest that instincts have a tendency to lead towards certain social roles. On the flip side, you could also title them as other tendencies.

[Animal]

Hmm. On that link to Freud's theories of Life and Death, he has.... essentially Sx, Soc, and Sp (in that order going downwards) - under "Life instinct."

[SpiritoftheGael]

Also when looking at just one type it is very obvious that the obsession of an sx 9 is very different from the obsession of a social 9 or an sp 9. Definitely still very much in favor of renaming sp. Anyways the obsession towards "SP" can lead to flip sides of a coin or more likely a spectrum with extremes on both ends. Animal Daeva